[Justin Riege]

So the riser should be supported to something suspended on the Engine side of the isolators, (Red in attached pic) It must move with the engine, the bellhousing, motor mounts, isolator studs are good locations. Some consideration should be given to thermal expansion. We make our braces out of good size pipe or tubing and cut an inch out of the middle and bridge that gap with a hose and 3 or 4 clamps per side.

The wet side, after the hump hose and rubber elbow, (blue) can be supported off the hull, stringer, beam etc. Often we do this with something not exceedingly rigid. Incorporating some cushion or flexibility in the support. Using rubber hose or something. The closer you get to the thru hull the more it is locked in with the hull, the closer you get to the engine, the more movement you need to allow for.

[Justin Riege]

I am more of a design engineer, fabricator and machinist, not really a master mechanic.

Troubleshooting something like this can be tough remotely. Especially with so little information.

You gotta start with the simple stuff, get that out of the way.

Usually the first step is to completely service the entire raw water circuit per our protocol. This means, the aftercooler, gear cooler, Heat exchanger off the engine and on the bench. This needs to be 100% before you can really go any further. So many times people chase their tails replacing all sorts of components before realizing that it was something as simple as a gunked up aftercooler.

Then if the problem still persists we need more information.

First of all LOT OF PICS
Secondly… More Pics
You said 6B which exact model are we dealing with here?
Did this problem come on suddenly?
Did the turbo have any obvious problems?
Why the injectors? In our experience, people replace them like they are spark plugs on a 57 chevy, they aren’t usually the culprit.
Did anything you’ve done so far help or hurt?
Any other circumstantial information?
Lastly couple more pics

[Justin Riege]

I’m not sure what percentage of vessels with QSB’s have mufflers, but in general, a lot of Cummins powered boats do, and a lot don’t. Tony’s Boat with a QSB 6.7 does not. But I know others that do.

It’s not a lift muffler on the bypass line is it? I don’t think that would be ideal.

I would pop a centek muffler on the 6″ hose and give it a shot. Good chance it will help. Not a huge risk or expense to try it out.

Hard to predict exactly how it will change the sound. Sometimes one little tweak can make a big difference. Acoustics are complicated to predict. You either have to have degrees in acoustics and mechanical engineering, or you need to be Tony with 30+ years of experience seeing every exhaust configuration available.

If you post lots of good pics of the exhaust, the outlets, the bypass, etc. Tony might have some magic bullet.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Robert Vetrano

[Justin Riege]

You didn’t mention the aftercooler. Has that been serviced or replaced? At least inspected?

[Justin Riege]

There are a few things I can tell and a few things I cant tell from that pic.

What I can tell is that you have proper insulated dry riser to a shower head style mixer on the down slope. That is good. Looks like most of the available height is being used and that is good. It looks like someone put a decent quality insulating wrap on and that is also good. The raw water is coming in at a good angle near the top and somewhat tangent to the OD so that is also good.

What I can’t tell is the quality or thickness of the metal. Some of our competitors use material that just doesn’t hold up. Others use decent metal but its fairly thin. Also I can’t tell you if the spray pattern is ideal, but if you aren’t melting hoses then it must be doing its job. Lastly, on a mixer angle that shallow we often do a nozzle inside the spray ring to make it harder for water to reach the inside of the mixer… I can’t tell if there is a nozzle. Also I cannot tell where the water line is.

You said the exhaust just goes straight out the transom No muffler, no surge tube. That could be a bit risky unless this turbo is well above the water line. We typically like to have a surge tube, or muffler, or both.

What to do moving forward.

If you really want to put forth some due diligence, you could remove the riser and inspect the turbo and internals of the mixer. Post pics of the inside of the turbo and the mixer.

Also post pics of the rest of the exhaust so we could see.

If the turbo is sitting a least 6″ above the water line, plus the height of the riser chances are you are okay. The higher the better.

Based on all of this it’s up to you how deep you want to dig. Pulling the riser and checking the turbo is pretty cheap insurance to make sure you the turbo is getting any water splashing back.

[Justin Riege]

I like the idea of a ball valve. Especially for learning and mapping how bad condensation is under your conditions. You may find you only need to open it once in a while, or only during the humid season, or you might consistently see condensation in there. If you get tired of opening the valve every run, then drill a pin hole in a plug an be done with it. If condensation doesn’t seem to accumulate, just leave it closed most of the time. If you don’t do the valve its hard to quantify how much condensation is an issue for you.

Cummins Aftercooler Condensation Drain with Mini Ball Valve

[Justin Riege]

As far as this Ratio thing, Tony asked if there was a final answer.

Here is my argument.

A simple way to solve engineering problems is to take them to the Extreme. This may be easy to confuse at 10:1 but what about at 1:1, which should be 1 part water to 1 part solution, 50% mix. You can’t do 1:1 any other way unless you argue that 1:1 means no dilution. Then when you move to 2:1 which would be 2 parts water to 1 part solution for a total of 3 parts.

Continue on with that logic and you wind up at 10:1 being a total of 11 parts.

According to Robs chart which looks pretty legit…

To mix up 32 oz you use 29 oz of water and 2.9 oz of acid. In other words whoever made the chart divided that 32 oz into 11 parts. 32/11 = 2.9 oz A quick scan around that chart shows consistency with this approach.

10:1 means 10 parts water to 1 part acid for a total of 11 parts.

That’s my two cents and its worth a lot less than that.

[Justin Riege]

In case you havent seen this. Brenden did a great job of explaining the process step by step.

[Justin Riege]

Also, post a bunch of pics on your current setup here. There are a lot of solid contributors on here so you’ll get some good honest feedback pretty quickly.

1 user thanked author for this post.

JJM

[Justin Riege]

Custom exhaust is the only way to go. There is no good off the shelf solution.

Watch this…

Study this…

Everything you Need to Know About Marine Exhaust Systems

Then look at this…

Custom Marine Exhaust Design & Fabrication

[Justin Riege]

Those solenoids actually have a decent sized coil. Although they don’t require a ton of current to hold position, about an amp. They use a lot for the initial stroke during cranking.

According to tonys tips the suck in wire, white wire uses 20-30A and the red wire, the hold wire, uses about 1A.

Fuel Shutoff Solenoid Wiring 101

Looking at an engine in the shop floor, the wiring harness looks like roughly a 12 gauge wire. For the white wire, the suck in wire for the initial stroke, Assuming 20A at 3 feet this would yield a voltage drop of about 0.2 volts. That same wire at 30 feet would yield a voltage drop of about 2 volts. Probably a bit excessive?

However, if you put this NC Momentary open in a 30 foot loop on the red wire, the hold wire, 1A would be no problem

Although some of the others may have a better way to do it. Electrically speaking, its fine to run 1A that far on a 12AWG wire, it will yield about a voltage drop of about 0.095. Go up to a 10AWG and your really good with a voltage drop of 0.0599 V at 1A for 30 a foot loop.

Aside from the obvious additional failure point, it seems okay.

You could also do it with a relay, but that would add even more complexity and failure points.

[Justin Riege]

The high mount turbo typically works best with V drive setups.

Charles, it sounds like you are pretty serious about addressing this. If you want to discuss some options, shoot me a phone call at the shop. These days I am the one who builds most of the exhaust risers, with some help from Tony on the design work, especially in the tricky situations like these. I am sure between myself and Tony we can come up with a solution. I’ve got a few ideas myself and he has a lot of tricks up his sleeve. Some of the stuff floated here by Rob and Corey might be worth a look too. It all comes down to the physical dimensions. We can all see it’s tight, but exactly how tight?

I can send you a worksheet for you to fill out with all of the critical measurements, and then I can really get a 3D model in my head of the space we have to work with and we can mock a few ideas up on the shop floor. I think Corey’s earlier comment that some fiberglass work may be in your future, but it might be pretty minimal.

I think you are on the right track and it sounds like you want to address this so a phone call can cover a lot of ground much faster than going back and fourth on here.

Justin Riege
805.382.6287

[Justin Riege]

Sounds like you’ve got a pretty good handle on it…

You’ve probably thought of this stuff too…

Do you have fuel coolers? Might want to inspect those, or maybe remove them.
Are the isolators still solid? Now would be a good time to replace any that look/feel suspect.
How do the electrical connections/components look… Mag switch and starter. Clean them up the posts and remake the connections with fresh grease.

Sounds like you take great care of that vessel!

1 user thanked author for this post.

Tony

[Justin Riege]

If the lower nut doesn’t move that tells you that the height of the engine hasn’t changed as a result of your work. As far as the engine moving laterally only if all of the studs on the isolators were installed vertical with the engine and not angled in or out or whichever way, only then will the motor probably stay put. If the isolators are angled, then as they were tightened up initially there could be some “Spring” in them, as soon as you loosen one, the others could pull or push the engine around a bit. Probably minimal, but it could happen. If you think it may have moved we do have a few videos with that feature some tips on alignment.

Step 1
Make sure the shaft is running in the center of the log.

Step 2
Use a feeler gauge to get the twist and angle dialed in so that the coupler mates flat with the transmission flange.

[Justin Riege]

I once made an A frame and lifted a 700 pound bench top milling machine off of a pallet and up onto its stand using only all thread as the lifting mechanism. If the steel you plan on spanning across with is strong enough, and the part of the deck its resting on is strong enough, it might work just fine lifting it from the top. Spread the load to a bulkhead or beam. All thread can make a decent come along. It’s just really slow.

[Justin Riege]

For in line drive engines where the timing cover is towards the bow and higher up, that location works fine.

For V drives, the timing cover location is too low especially when underway while the bow is riding up.

The valve cover option is more universal and being the highest point is best for higher blowby engines, with the option of adding an extension. And you can move the valve cover with the vent to accommodate a V or inline drive. Its all about using gravity to help keep the oil where it belongs.

Our kit includes a cap and a hose clamp for the vent behind the aftercooler.

1 user thanked author for this post.

SeaDog

[Justin Riege]

Did you put the impeller in dry? Tony usually recommends using a little lubricant. Some say use a synthetic rubber safe grease, Rob likes the KY jelly, Tony says just use something, anything pretty much, once you run the engine its all going to get flushed away anyhow and fears of it degrading the impeller material are exaggerated.

A quote from tony on a previous thread

“Although the Sherwood book may say different, we have always lubed the impeller , inside of the housing, and the shaft w/ a general purpose grease just before install and use.. Most people think that degrades the impeller– It does not, but believe what you like…It makes absolutely no difference which way you twist the impeller as you push as the blades will flip over when you change directions.. Lubrication of the impeller makes for instant prime, easy install, and no dry start-ups” …………………Tony

[Justin Riege]

Well I am not Tony or Rob, but I have helped Brenden service a handful of after coolers here in the shop. I don’t know if it really helps in the long run, but I usually put a very thin coat of grease on any pitting or areas where the e coating is gone. Make sure you wire brush/wheel any pitting and white corroded areas. get it down to clean metal.

[Justin Riege]

Anti Siphon.. That Makes more sense.

Pics always help…

Did you see number 8 in the article you posted… A fail safe anti siphon diversion hose.

“8. If a valve fails, the consequences could be dire. I and other people have sometimes removed the valve from the loop in the engine system (NOT the head discharge) and installed a hose from the air vent in the loop to a vent overboard[/u] where a small amount of diverted water flow can be easily seen when the engine is running. With this arrangement, you don’t worry about the valve hanging up. The vented passage is always open. And you can easily tell when the water is running and when it stops. This flow, however, must not be of such volume that it adversely affects the cooling of the exhaust.”

For a generator this would probably need to be a pretty small hose so you don’t bypass too much water.

Thoughts on these on a generator…Rob???

[Justin Riege]

I am assuming you are talking about the raw water circuit from the thru hull, thru the sea strainer to the raw water pump.

I would be monitoring that at all times in one way or another. First by making sure you have water flowing which is critical to any engine.

As long as water is flowing you are “probably” good on the Siphon. It is possible to have an air leak, loose sea strainer lid, loose fitting, in which case air could get sucked into the system. I would take a peak at my sea strainers a lot more often than once every 6 months. Raw water flow is something you should be monitoring at all times.

Take a peak at the strainers before every run. If the sea strainers are full with water and the engine has plenty of raw water flowing, good engine temps etc, then you are good to go. If the strainers have a lot of air in them, you might have a leak on the suction side essentially breaking your siphon.

[Author]

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