• This topic has 22 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by John.
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  • #91791

    Stephen Oliver
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Ascella
    Engines: 2x Cummins 330hp Diamond
    Location: Perth, Australia
    Country: Australia

    Hi guys simple question I hope…

    I have read Tony’s tips searched the forum etc but hoping for a straight forward answer

    Is there any reason NOT to install 160 degrees thermostats?

    Tony’s tips suggest it should be done as all Cummins latest are.. many have changed, and over here with 40degC days I can’t see any harm in a bit of headroom with engine temps. I also plan on adding redundant alarms too eventually getting rid of the Cummins ones.

    Anyway I look forward to the cons…

    Steve

Viewing 20 replies - 1 through 20 (of 22 total)
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  • #98823

    John
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Puffin
    Engines: 270HP 6BTA
    Location: Watch Hill RI
    Country: USA

    My average seasonal (April – November) fuel burn includes running 5 knot channel/no wake zones, cruising at about 10 knots, some higher runs for weather/sea conditions, drift fishing, running at high idle to top house batteries when anchored out on cloudy/rainy days (I have an 8 amp, 16.5 volt, 130 watt solar panel). For 15 years, my seasonal average is 2 GPH.

    #98784

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    my average 2 GPH fuel burn

    2GPH ā€¦ That’s seasonal average including the 5mph wake zones, etc etc. or did you mean 2 MPG cruise burn ?

    #98772

    John
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Puffin
    Engines: 270HP 6BTA
    Location: Watch Hill RI
    Country: USA

    Thanks Tony. I’ll order a 180 stat. As I mentioned, my 10 knot cruising speed keeps engine at around 1600 RPM. While I can hit 18 knots at WOT (2600 RPM) with the NT’s semi-displacement hull, I’ve been spoiled over the years with my average 2 GPH fuel burn.

    #98761

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    This is simple. If you run all the time at displacement speeds with a 1-2 minute run up to clean things up and check baseline numbers once in a awhile, then stay with the 180 stats..

    But if your “run ups” are to really travel some distance, I’d be running 160’s.. Everything should drop 20F across the board. Remember, all the new “Q” engines run 160 stats… Maybe even Cummins thinks that is safer on engines cruising at 40HP per liter and higher..

    BTW, Emission wise, hotter coolant is always better.

    #98757

    John
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Puffin
    Engines: 270HP 6BTA
    Location: Watch Hill RI
    Country: USA

    I’m running a 6BTA 270 HP JWAC engine with original 180 degree thermostat. Boat purchased new in 2006, and I’ve put on about 2300 hours. In a previous HX post, I mentioned that with a cold start, temp goes up to about 195 degrees before thermostat opens and falls back to normal operating temp. Tony suggested a sticking thermostat. I’ve kept raw water system clean with periodic acid flushes and fresh water rinses. This engine powers a Nordic Tug, so I’m in that category of running in the low RPM range, where cruising is mostly in the 1400 – 1600 RPM, with occasional higher runs and WOT “clean out” blasts. Normal operating temperature is about 182 – 185 degrees in cool New England waters. If I bump up to higher RPM’s, I’ll see temps move up to 195 or more.

    Ten years ago I had a belt shred under WOT and engine overheated before shutdown, so I’m a little anal about running hot. I recently purchased a Seaboard 160 degree thermostat to have on hand. On these 6BTA temperature discussions, Tony is saying that anyone running high RPM engines should have the 160 degree thermostat, and slower running engines should stick with the 180’s. Tony’s comment here… “Original stats are 180F.. Most engines run in the 185-195F range when things are rightā€¦” I’ve also seen Tony’s comments that these engine are designed to run a little hot. So it appears I need to keep this engine on a 180F degree thermostat. Right? (Tony’s response would be appreciated).

    #98663

    J Dragon
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Dragon
    Engines: Cummins 6BTA 5.9 315hp
    Location: MA
    Country: United States

    IR temp gun showed 165ish at expansion tank at 2500-2700rpms after first warming her up.

    Temp gauge at dash showed 145.

    I have the redundant 190 alarm so Iā€™m not relying solely on the Cummins alarm…but what are my options for fixing the accuracy of the Cummins gauge? Just curious if experience points to sender, ground issues, or gauge itself, and/or if there is a way to adjust the gauge?

    #98625

    J Dragon
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Dragon
    Engines: Cummins 6BTA 5.9 315hp
    Location: MA
    Country: United States

    Okay so 165-175 is the ballpark operating temp, with everything right, for a 160 t-stat.

    I’ll shoot the temp gun at the expansion tank and the block and see what the difference is.

    If the gauge is off, is it more commonly the gauge itself, the sender or the wiring? I have the Cummins analog panel.

    #98624

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    160F Hi-flow stats

    Original stats are 180F.. Most engines run in the 185-195F range when things are right………….I’d say your gauges are not accurate.

    The 160’s will run about 20F cooler across the board if all was right before, and all right now.

    #98620

    J Dragon
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Dragon
    Engines: Cummins 6BTA 5.9 315hp
    Location: MA
    Country: United States

    Iā€™m looking at a video of it running before I bought it and it was a bit over 160 at the gauge…temp gun at block said 173 at sea trial.

    I saw a pic of Bill Dā€™s setup and I saw his temp was 150ish at WOT with the 160 t-stat so maybe Iā€™m overthinking this.

    Work at same time as T-stat upgrade: cleaned aftercooler, Rebuilt raw water pump, replaced turbo

    #98616

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    What did your gauge read under simple circumstances just BEFORE you changed thermostats?

    Any other work done at the time your swapped thermostats?

    #98609

    J Dragon
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Dragon
    Engines: Cummins 6BTA 5.9 315hp
    Location: MA
    Country: United States

    To dogpile on this, I installed the 160 t-stat and found that an hour long shakedown cruise including 20 minute stints of cruising at 2200-2400rpms and my 6bta temp gauge only showed about 150 degrees. A wonky gauge occurs to me so I’ll hit with an infrared gun but is it conceivable the block is staying that cold and if so, is that an issue? New raw waterpump, new coolant, cleaned aftercooler.

    #94586

    Stephen Oliver
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Ascella
    Engines: 2x Cummins 330hp Diamond
    Location: Perth, Australia
    Country: Australia

    Tah Steve

    I have one stupid question , how do you send a a PM at the risk of sounding a bit special I tried sending you one yesterday but it asks for a recipient to be listed which I did but still no joy . I have had my Carribean for comming up to two years i have always had trailer boats prior to this but have come to realise by the time I have everything engine wise up to a standard im happy with its time to start again .

    HI Wayne

    There are a number of issues with the website I have found (I posted about it but nobody replied) Try quoting 2 people in a reply.. reply disappears.. or fails. Same with including more than on URL link..

    As Rob has said… seems to be a problem i’m sure they will be on to it.. If you want to email me .. you can get me on steve fullstop oliver at my website domain fullworksfiresafety.com.au

    We have had our Leeder for 3 years this July.. and yes i’m just starting on the second round of the more detailed maintenance. But to be honest – get it right initially and it really isnt that hard. I reckon an aftercooler can be removed, stripped, cleaned, reassembled properly in a matter of a few hours. Faster if you have someone that can ultrasonic clean. If you Rydlyme first then no descaling is required. Pressure testing takes at least 24 hours for me, 12 hours air side, 12 hours water side (it was 24 hours before but i get no loss in 12 hours so it must be ok at 30psi) – Oil changes are quick and easy – Anodes are quick, Descaling the raw water side is not bad.. just takes a bit of time to get the setup right and then you can reuse the pump / pipes etc next time. Impellers are easy SB side about 15 minutes – and a pain in the @rse on the port side (aftercooler off, fuel solenoid off almost impossible to reach – but easier than removing the pump) I recon probably 2 hours for the port… now I have done it!

    Its a lot of work all up.. but chipping away at it helps.. although I would prefer to do everyting at once.. I dont have the time, so everything is staggered, Oil change on SB engine one month, port the next, SB after cooler one month, Port the next etc etc.. the main thing if you do it yourself as per the advice on here is 1, you do it right.. unlike any professional over here and 2, you save heaps of $$. Another bonus is when something goes wrong, you can at least deal with it yourself.

    Steve

    #94582

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Tah Steve
    I have one stupid question , how do you send a a PM at the risk of sounding a bit special I tried sending you one yesterday but it asks for a recipient to be listed which I did but still no joy

    Not a stupid question at all Wayne, something is up with the PM function. Just tried sending you a test and exactly as you state – it’s looking for a username although it is there. Corey will need to look into this when he catches his breath…

    #94572

    wayne
    Participant
    Engines: cummins 330 6BTA diamonds seies
    Location: perth West Australia
    Country: Australia

    Tah Steve
    I have one stupid question , how do you send a a PM at the risk of sounding a bit special I tried sending you one yesterday but it asks for a recipient to be listed which I did but still no joy . I have had my Carribean for comming up to two years i have always had trailer boats prior to this but have come to realise by the time I have everything engine wise up to a standard im happy with its time to start again .

    #94531

    Stephen Oliver
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Ascella
    Engines: 2x Cummins 330hp Diamond
    Location: Perth, Australia
    Country: Australia

    I think the gremlins are common.. let me know if you find them.. i’m just slowly working my way though things.. major items are first.. but i’m running out of them.. just working up to full exhaust redesign.. as current set up kills the turbo’s without management..

    If you have any questions or need advice.. let me know.. i’ll let you know what I have found out.

    Steve

    #94520

    wayne
    Participant
    Engines: cummins 330 6BTA diamonds seies
    Location: perth West Australia
    Country: Australia

    Hi Steve
    Yes Mindarie has the best bloody seagull breeding program int he country I think and it turns out my boat is there favourite toilet. It sounds like my engines are running at similar temps I run at around 2300rpm most times heading out fishing or going to Rotto and I have the same gremlins in the wiring of the cummins gauges chasing low oil pressure in starboard gearbox that does not exist bought a manual transmission pressure gauge to check it and now know its the wiring earth probably .

    #94437

    Stephen Oliver
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Ascella
    Engines: 2x Cummins 330hp Diamond
    Location: Perth, Australia
    Country: Australia

    Hi Steve

    I have a 2004 caribean 35 with two 330hp cummins in Mindarie Perth WA , also noted how great this site is for those of us who prefer to get there hands dirty .

    Have you changed your thermostats to the 160deg ones yet as i have been toying with it also keen to know what it dropped your running temps to? I typicaly sit between 86 and 88deg and am a self confessed paranoid worrier looking at gauges constantly and checking with IR gun.

    HI Wayne

    Ah the marina of Seagulls! _ we are only in Kinross but berthed at Hillaries. We do Visit Mindaire a bit and stay over at new year for the fireworks. We have friends with boats up there too.

    I havent had a chance to fit the thermostats as yet.. Between my business, a 3 year old and everything else.. time is a bit short. I actually bought them to push me into free Tshirt territory! šŸ™‚

    Temp wise – SB engine sits about 90deg and port sits about 98! (at about 2300rpm) The Port is wrong though and is a wiring issue, voltage issue that i’m working on very slowly!

    Make the aftercoolers a priority if you havent done them previously… mine were a b*tch to seperate requiring a friends 100t press, a bottle of jack daniels (for the work) and several hundred dollars of repair to the core that I tried to remove. I have a metal press tool now that can be used to hammer the core out now should you need to use it. Hopefully you wont. I basically did both engines, rydlymed, removed aftercoolers / heat exchangers and overhauled them all, repainted and had both turbos redone as they were shot (exhaust design issue)

    Re the overheat alarm – I ended up with a digital one from Silicon marine in the UK (had family coming over so they bought it over) It uses platinum sensors through the exhaust hose and has a twin read out with settable alarms – great for the worrier.. and has NMEA output too so can be used further down the line without the display. I’d say the device is very good just not productionised too much due to what I would imagine is fairly small production runs so used standard casings ect that arent the best four mounting how I wanted. Obviously the SBMAR stuff is great.. I just wanted more detail and it has shown a surprising difference in exhaust (wet) temps – I see around 38degC at idle and just above – upto 68degC at 800-1300rpm and from about 1300 it holds steady between 38 and 41degC.. It has an internal alarm and external alarm too so you know when something is wrong or your alarm is set too low.

    The SBMAR a/cooler and HX kits are great as they include everything.. but if you need more anodes (mine seem to need 6 monthly but about to do a FW flush install) I can get them locally for about $8 a pop.. I used to use a freight forwarder to save postage costs.. but they now charge GST so its marginal as to whether its cheaper using them or not.

    Feel free to PM me any questions.. Sometimes we have to get stuff locally.. but my preference is from here for most things.. Tony and the team give so much help and info for nothing.. we have to give something back!

    Steve

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #94419

    wayne
    Participant
    Engines: cummins 330 6BTA diamonds seies
    Location: perth West Australia
    Country: Australia

    Thanks Rob
    Yeah I read that and yeah spot on its on my wish list its our prime boating time here in West Oz at the moment and come mid winter plan on going right through the two engines (again) and will most likely order the alarm kit from you guys will be doing the aftercoolers also plus replacing alot of hoses and will try and combine it all to minimize the freight a bit.
    Thanks again

    #94391

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Welcome Wayne,

    You prefer to get your hands dirty and you’re a self confessed paranoid worrier looking at gauges constantly.

    Below is what you need to do next

    A fun project and you’ll never look back (and never look at your gauges again!)

    https://www.sbmar.com/articles/redundant-alarms-least-expensive-engine-insurance/

    #94386

    wayne
    Participant
    Engines: cummins 330 6BTA diamonds seies
    Location: perth West Australia
    Country: Australia

    Hi Steve
    I have a 2004 caribean 35 with two 330hp cummins in Mindarie Perth WA , also noted how great this site is for those of us who prefer to get there hands dirty .
    Have you changed your thermostats to the 160deg ones yet as i have been toying with it also keen to know what it dropped your running temps to? I typicaly sit between 86 and 88deg and am a self confessed paranoid worrier looking at gauges constantly and checking with IR gun.

Viewing 20 replies - 1 through 20 (of 22 total)

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