[Scott Woodhouse]

Tony,

Found this to be a good supplement from the land lubbers.  The second method is obviously the one, but adds some good info to the knowledge base.  Not going to to torque to what they do, I don’t feel like tapping today.

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/engine/0811dp-cummins-head-bolt-tech-how-to/

[Scott Woodhouse]

Quick Question. Have your sheet on retorqueing the head. Does that have to be done warm?  I am going to do that regardless. I gather pulling each bolt out and then putting it back in at the correct spec per your sheet?  Thanks. 

[Scott Woodhouse]

Sad?  Denial?  Nah…Trust but verify.  Cummins on board early next week. Regardless, has to be dealt with. Instead of playing he said she said, which in the end does not change anything for me, let’s see what is found by an actual Cummins Mechanic while the boat is being run. Even if you agreed, still have to run the boat.   If you are indeed correct, which I hope your not for money reasons, have to verify by a trusted party. 

 

Thanks for for your help as always, and stay tuned, I will let you know the findings…even if you are right:-)

[Scott Woodhouse]

Tony, interesting.  I think I am going to have to have Cummins, not my local dealer, but Cary Diesel, they know Cummins re-do the survey.  They saw the video’s as well.  They are familiar with this vintage, they said they saw the head gasket problem, but it was earlier.  So only way for sure, get them on board, and we will setup a betting pool.  Stay tuned, will keep you posted.

 

Thanks again for your input.  Need to post the impeller pics…

 

[Scott Woodhouse]

1.  Port Engine Throttle.  It’s disconnected, and the travel goes beyond the cable WOT.

2.  Oil Dipstick Starboard Motor.  Clean.

3.  Starboard Freeze plug.  Paint is wet with Anti-Freeze, Paint comes right off, you can still see some to Blue.

4.  Leak and AF trail Port engine.

 

Thanks in advance for your input. 

[Scott Woodhouse]

Those are some really nice pictures.

[Scott Woodhouse]

Sometimes I think we all need a good Diesel listener….

1.  Starboad Motor:  Blown Head.  The surveyor told the broker he wiped the back of the motor to make sure it was not leaking.  Not sure where he wiped or what, but when I wiped it, the freeze port was still wet with coolant and the paint came right off.  The port is leaking.  I pressurized the cooling system.  No other leaks found.  Also checked oil, I had just changed it, but no signs of anything in the oil, and when I changed the oil in December, oil looked fine.  Conclusion:  Need a new Freeze Plug.

2.  Port Motor.  Blown Head.  Looking at the leak, the anti-freeze is coming down the right side of the head.  I pressurized the system, and it was leaking, one of the hoses was loose near the exchanger, could follow the trail, boat would have to be on plane, but you could see it.  Tightened hose with non-caterpillar wrench, leak stopped.  Held pressure.

3.  Port Motor.  Low WOT and low Turbo Boost.  Port Motor is Lead on Sync, noticed big difference when putting on plane with out sync between port and starboard during Sea Trial.  Put Port Motor at WOT, disconnected cable, and had significant, like an 1″ from the top that throttle still could go forward.  Big Fix, adjusted cable.

4.  Turbo, the boost loss was at WOT, SO DUH! Not getting WOT, you are not going to have the boost, unless you have a blown head, but this is a Cummins.

5.  Coolers:  I think he had no clue they were just serviced.  Just a guess, but he told me they had never been serviced and how they needed US cleaning anenpressure testing and so on.  That did not really make it on the report, and if it did, might have missed it.

6.  All Neoprene hoses needed to be replaced.  He told that to me when he was telling me about the service.  I called in Brad, as he is an expert in Neoprene, and he told me as needed.  Which is what you have always said.  I inspected them again as I had everything off, and they all look good to me.  I will give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe where he is or with CAT, that is standard.  He’s a nice guy, I think he tried to do his clients well, and he would be awesome on CATS I am sure

I have the pics, which will,post later.

Let me know what you think. 

Thanks!

[Scott Woodhouse]

A few other things.  When I read the survey report, it seemed like it wasn’t much of a report, meaning he knew other people were going to be looking at it.  He told me that every time the cores are cleaned, new neoprene hoses are supposed to be replaced.  Jus chatted with Brad, he said nope, as needed.  Good news is that is what I thought as well.  Also on the report he says each engine is a gallon low.  Not really, I always leave the pile 1Gallong low, and then add 1 gallon of Lucas.  The oil was changed late in the season, I came down early to do those things, and they were on the boat already.  I told him that.

Later today, I will have more info, on the boat now.

 

stay tuned…

[Scott Woodhouse]

Ok, first, yes it’s my boat.  Not sure why you think it’s not.  I have done all of the work since 2004.  I posted my data in a prior link, so I am not sure what you are looking for.  Engines, transmision, gear, WOT,  etc. 

Engine’s:  6 CTA 8.3 450 C’s

WOT 2700 Photo-Tac  Sorry, had 2675, but that was on the gauge.  Not the Photo Tac

Serial #’s:

46077285
46077150

Props:  22×23.845 #3 Cup

Michigan Wheels.  Nibral 4 Blades

Prop Pockets

Shaft:  Aqua met 22  Dripless.

ZF 280 Transmissions

Drive Type:  Straight

Gear Ratio: 1:483:1

I cruise about 22-2300 rpm/s.  We have a lift on the back, so the sweet spot varies based wind, tide and so forth.  With the tender on the lift, it’s heavy, 23-24 MPH.  Your water pumps are on the boat, I think I was probably one of the first from boat Diesel.  Even took video on how to do the outboard side and make it less painful.

The survey lists several problems as you are aware.

1.  States blown Head Gaskets, both motors.  Don’t believe it.  As you can see from the video, coolant is leaking down from the front while WOT.  Based on my research, which I will confirm tomorrow, there is most likely a leak at the thermostat, as I never have had to add Coolant, Cummins of course, to the engine.  No change in Over Flow tank.  Cant’ even remember the last time I had to put anti-freeze.  There are no oil leaks on either engine.  Plan is to just pressure test the cooling system, should be able to pin point the leaks on both motors.  Right strategy?

2.  WOT.  States 2700 Starboard and Port 2567.  Spent a lot of money getting the props to 2,700.  Normally I use sync when going on plane, but for the Sea Trial, which I ran the boat, I did not.  I noticed that the Port cable is stretched significantly, so when I was bringing it up even, the port throttle was maybe an inch farther up than Starboard.  This would most likely explain the difference in WOT, so while at the boat, I plan to adjust the linkage, and check the play.  I expect to find that the throttle is not reaching the max.  I am witnerized right now, so running the boat is somewhat limited for another few weeks unless you believe Punsatany Phil.

3.  After Coolers.  In the pics you will see the pipes are brown, always have been since I bought the boat in 2004.  First thing I did was so the prop work.  Since 2008, we have not used the boat as much as we did in the beginning.  So some years we had less than 20 hours on the motors.  The boat sits in fresh water.  The starboard cooler gets cleaned more than port, logistics and once I had the grease on it, didn’t worry as much.  I find it hard to believe that I have cooler problems.  But here I am limited other than puling them again, even thought the were both out.

4.  Turbos.  The only problems I have has was when I had turbo lag.  it was really in the first one or two years, and I did what you told me to do with Dawn Dishwasher and distilled water.  Never really had a problem again that I could tell.  I did by gauges to test boost a while back, they are still in the engine room, but connection to the turbo was a problem becasue my lines where not metal.  I think you sent me instructions on how attach, but I wasnt really noticing a problem

The biggest thing is my buyer hired a guy who is a CAT guy, and is looking for winter work.  I say that because of the heads.  Right now my buyer has a list of this and a nice price tag to pay this guy, but I just don’t trust his reports becasue of the head gasket and he did not bother to check throttle travel.  He’s not a Cummins guy.  He’s a CAT guy that works on other stuff.

[Scott Woodhouse]

Ok, finally got the survey back.  Here ya go.

[Scott Woodhouse]

Yup, figured that out.  After I renewed for $25 bucks!  Should have just bought a new t-shirt from Brad.  Just got done having a very direct conversation with the buyers broker.  I was supposed to have the numbers from the survey on Friday, they are waiting on an oil sample from blown heads that I don’t have.  Plus, I just changed the oil.  Should be a great test.  Meahwhile I have a delayed close and reminded the broker everyday I pay interest.  In the even it turns out none of these problems exist, who gets to pay?  Never send a CAT mechanic to a Cummins boat, I don’t care what sticker he has on the side of his truck.

[Scott Woodhouse]

Of course I have numbers from the boat.  But it’s what the surveryor is saying about the engine’s are the problem.

He is stating three problems with the engines.  Head Gaskets, which you can see by the video’s he is wrong.  After Cooler problems, again both sides and Turbo Issues.  So to start narrowing this down, I need his numbers from his Survey.  He did not for example get WOT of 2675.  That is porobably because of cable stretch, which I have to go back down and check.  That would also lead the the low turbo boost on the one engine that was only getting 2550.  He never checked the travel, the reason I know is that bringing the boat up on plane, I normally use the Sync, but what I didn’t the throttles were way off.

Getting closer?  Still waiting on his numbers so we have data of what the boat normally is, and what he found.

Engine’s:  6 CTA 8.3 450 C’s

WOT 2675 Photo-Tac

Serial #’s:

46077285
46077150

Props:  22×23.845 #3 Cup

Michigan

Prop Pockets

Shaft:  Aqua met 22

ZF 280 Transmissions

Drive Type:  Straight

Gear Ratio: 1:483:1

[Scott Woodhouse]

Yes, I am selling the boat.  The numbers which I don’t have yet are from the buyers surveyor, he obviously down know anything about Cummins.

[Scott Woodhouse]

Tony, waiting on survey report from the Marine Surveyor, which is now totally suspect.  If you get a chance, look at the two video’s posted above.  During the Sea Trial, this is a video of both the Port and Starboard engine having leaking Head Gaskets.  If you look carefully, you will see why a Caterpillar guy who works on “everything” has not business being on my boat.

He also screwed up the Turbo and After Coolers.  Pics attached.  I contacted the selling broker directly and very nicely told them that I was not paying to have my boat surveryed due to the impentcy of their surveryor.  My broker showed the video the next day to a Marine Surveyor who is a Cummin’s guy, and laughed.  You will too.  After coolers you will see look pretty good.  Least in my humble opinoion.  Only 750 hours on the boat.  So there has been a delay in getting this report because the mechanic is walking back at least the Head claims for now. 

[Scott Woodhouse]

Let me ask this another way.  I looked in the manuel for the interval for the heads to be re-torqued.  Found Tony’s article of course, but cannot find how often or when this should be done.  The other question is, and I know this is slim, is that if the Head is re-torqued, what are the chance’s of correcting the leak?

 

How to Torque a Cummins Marine C-Series Cylinder Head

[Scott Woodhouse]

I talked to a Cummins dealer today, local, he told me my vintage was not affected by the gasket issues.  They were much earlier.  The Blue I am referring too is the color of the anti-freeze.  It doesn’t look to Blue to me.  Maybe I am not looking carefully enough.  The broker talked to a friend of his, and he asked if the heads were torqued per the Cummins service requirement.  I looked at the book, and I don’t even see that in the book.

[Author]

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