[Shannon Ritzert]

I have one type of engine in the field that has a crank mounted keyed impeller.  It is on a supercharged ZZ8 engine.  All the supercharger plumbing makes it extremely difficult to do the install, as does the rudder packing gland, and the dang key always wants to slide out when you are sliding the impeller in.  I actually use silicone spray, or soap for lubricity on these, and I also use about 3 zip ties to squeeze the fins to minimize the friction while sliding the impeller in the housing.  I will clip each zip tie as it starts to go into the housing.

 

I’ve also had brand X impellers machine work on the hubs not fit like a oem made impeller will.  I always try to get the customer to pay for oem and not cheap out on these.  I have also been as far as to cut all the fins off of an impeller that is giving me fits to make sure it is not a bad machine on the hub (I know this is a waste of money, but sometimes frustration sets in, and I just want answers to the problem)

[Shannon Ritzert]

I like a parts guru!!  

Thank you!

[Shannon Ritzert]

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Shannon Ritzert]

Tony, Here are the results of the prop scans Thanks  

 

The prop shop suggests a 22″x20p 

[Shannon Ritzert]

my 150hp 4bt overheated, so I am trying to save money on a rebuilding it.  I purchased the 65hp 4b a long time ago for a parts engine.  When I purchased it, I did not realize the differences between the engines.  When I disassembled the 4b, I seen that this engine has almost no time on it. 

I am cross referencing the parts of the 4b to use on the 4bt rebuild.  I figure that any part that has less time on it, I will use for my rebuild.

The block of the 4bt is heavily grooved.  I don’t know if the proper procedure is boring and buying oversized pistons on a cummins engine, or buying oversized sleeves and sleeving, or what to do.  The 4b block has standard journals, and is in perfect shape, so I would like to use the 4b block instead of sending the 4bt block to a machine shop.

The cranks in both engines are standard sized, and are stamped with the same part number.  The crank in the 4b block has almost no time on it.  I would like to use the 4b crank

The main caps have the same part numbers on both engines, once again, I want to use the best main caps which are the 4b main caps

The connecting rods and wrist pins are the same part number on both engines, the 4b rods and wrist pins have less time on them.

The cam part numbers removed from the engines differ, but according to the parts book, the cams are the same in both CPL’s.  Neither part numbers stamped on the cams match the parts book.  I am doubting the cam that I removed from the 4bt was the right cam in the first place.   I am trying to make sure I use the right cam on the rebuilt.

I know the pistons are different,  The cup size is smaller on the 4bt thus increasing compression,  I will purchase the right pistons for the 4bt

I know the injectors and cav pumps on both engines are different, I will use the 150hp pump for the 4bt.

I know the oil pumps are different for NA engines over Turbo.

I have not done any research on the heads yet.  I do know to increase horsepower, you need to feed more fuel.  I am assuming either the valves are differing size.  I cannot find the part numbers on the heads to do a comparison, but I was just going to use the original 4bt head anyway.

[Shannon Ritzert]

I missed a 9 

CPL 591 serial is 44399904

CPL 741 block needs sleeved. It now has a bad bore.

my intention is to use the 591 block, crank, connecting rods, wrist pins, cam crank and fuel pump gears, and timing cover.

On 741 I want to use the complete head, injection pump, and oil pan.  I was going to use the cam and lifters out of this engine too, but according to the parts manual, neither one of these engines have the right cam part number.

 

 I’m buying new pistons and rings according to what CPL 741 should use PN 3802100

 

Does tht sound reasonable?  Is the cam that came out of CPL 741 even the right cam?

[Shannon Ritzert]

CPL 591 Serial number is. 4439904

CPL 741 Serial number is.  44168164

is that supposed to be a link to parts?  If it is, it doesn’t work.

 

thanks

[Shannon Ritzert]

I found this interesting.  The cranks are the same part number.  One is made in Brazil, and the other Britain.  I was very curious about the difference in balancing on the two.  Are these balanced with the flywheel attached?

[Shannon Ritzert]

My machine shop told me:

Block is the same

Crank is the same

Rods are the same

Heads could be different

Cam could be different

Pistons are different

[Shannon Ritzert]

I have my engine pulled down (CPL 741  4bt)  This engine will need to be bored, or sleeved.  

 

Does anyone know if my block on the CPL 591 is the same block?  I pulled it down as well, and the block is in immaculate shape.  I am hoping to put new pistons in that block.  I am also hoping to use any other parts that are in better shape on this block such as bell housing, timing plate, and possibly the head if they are the same as well.

 

I am about to call the machine shop that I use too, and see if he has the answers too.

Thanks

[Shannon Ritzert]

Francis

I appreciate you very much.  I actually replaced this manifold last year with a new one that SBMAR had on sale.  That’s the biggest bummer to me is to replace new stuff.

So, I replaced the old manifold because you could see the bolts between the head, and the manifold.  I thought this was because it was rusted out, and on the verge of failing.  I was wrong on that, as the old manifold was just designed that way.  I don’t know if that makes sense or not, but bottom line, I have a usable good manifold.

I am with you, and  figured the piston is galled, or melted over the ring.  When I pull the engine down, I will more than likely do main, and rod bearings, new pistons and rings.  I am hoping that the cylinders are honeable.

 

I do have a question or 2 on cpl numbers.  The parts manual that I purchased from SBMAR says it is for 591, and 741, which I have both of those engines.  Tony mentioned looking in the cpl book or on qsol.  It looks to me like you have to be a dealer to use qsol, am I mistaking on that.  Is there a reference for non dealers?

 

Thanks guys,

I’ll post updates, maybe it will help someone out in the future

[Shannon Ritzert]

I don’t know if there’s an issue with the forums, or if its my end, but the post’s are jumbled up, not in order.

 

I ended up pulling the turbo, and filling the water side up with water, and no leaks there.  I then pulled the exhaust manifold, and filled the water side up with water, and have a crack where the number 4 cylinder port is.

 

I had the old manifold, and out of curiosity put everything back together, and have major blow by, so I’m going to have to do an engine rebuild.  I’m guessing at the very least number 4 piston is galled, and rings are stuck.

[Shannon Ritzert]

After the overheat, we were leaving a trail of coolant coming out of the rear exhaust port while running home.  Running on the one good engine, the overheated engine was shut down.   At this point, I figured at the very least I smoked a head gasket.  

After inspection, and re-assembly, coolant runs out of the rear exhaust port without even running, or starting the engine.  I am assuming coolant is running out the exhaust manifold (it is cracked)  then our of the turbo, then the mixer, then muffler, the out the port.  

I am heading down to the boat on Wednesday, maybe I will have better answers.

Does that clear up your questions?

[Shannon Ritzert]

This is interesting.  That almost looks like melted aluminum to me.  I wouldn’t think anything that large would run through the return lines.  Could you run your return line into a remote tank, then inspect the diesel in said tank for metal fragments?

[Shannon Ritzert]

Correct, coolant pours out of the exhaust without even starting it.   I spent a day pulling it down, cleaning off old gasket material, and inspecting everything, and getting everything ready to put back together.  Keep in mind, that  I tackled this project the first week in October, and I am just getting back to it, so I will do as well as my memory serves me.

I remember when installing the head gasket, that I intentionally tried to install it incorrect.  If I remember right, the head gasket will only go on one way and all the coolant jacket ports, and cylinders will align that way.  I’m pretty sure the head gasket also has the right direction stamped in it like most head gaskets, but I don’t remember

Obviously the exhaust manifold gasket fit any way you put them on

I do know that the turbo gasket, goes on a certain way, and I was aware of that while installing the turbo, However, the thought did cross my mind after coolant just pouring out that I possibly could have put it on wrong.  I started doubting myself in other words.

The only thing that makes sense to me is a crack in the turbo housing, a crack in the exhaust manifold, or a turbo gasket.  This engine got hot quick. 

This engine got hot quick.  I slowly throttled up to about 2250 rpm, made sure both engines were in sync, and checked egt, boost, and temp gauges.  My son asked me if I seen the flying fish bust out of the water, and I looked at him and said I missed them.  I looked back down to check my course and rpm, and my egt, and temp gauges were maxed, so literally like 5 seconds.  I don’t know the temperatures that these components can withstand, but past 1800 on egt, and past 250 on engine temp.

 

Anyway, I’ll double check the turbo gasket when I pull it down, and I am going to build a plate to pressure test the exhaust manifold, and turbo, and we shall see what comes of it all.

[Shannon Ritzert]

That makes sense being not turbo.  I never considered a different compression ratio.  I was thinking worst case scenario possibly a different cam

 

Do you have a guess on what is cracked, something you see more often that other things?

 

Thanks again

[Shannon Ritzert]

I fallow you, thank you!

[Shannon Ritzert]

Reading posts in the B31 forums, I seen mention of using surge tubes only, and no mufflers.  

 

any thoughts on layout beyond the mixer?  I am running 6″ exhaust hose past the mixer.  At the moment, the boats has 5″ centek mufflers in and outs with surge tubes.  I am not apposed to just straight 6″ hose, and no mufflers.  The 6″ mufflers will not fit under the floor.

[Shannon Ritzert]

I appreciate the info on that Willyok.  I emailed the guys here to get an answer, but I never got a reply.  I figure they are busy as can be, and my email slipped through the cracks.  The day I read your email, I had already ended up drilling and tapping the original plug that was in the manifold.  If anyone ever needs to know, the original plugs are brass.  I do intend to use the stainless ones once I acquire the tap to clean the threads in the manifold.

 

I do have some EGT data to report that is concerning.  Maybe I am missing a key to the puzzle for it to not be so concerning,

 

I ran the boat, same as before, full tank of fuel, and two adults, so almost no load.  After I ran it no load, I was going to add 2500-3000 lbs of ballast to get some data on that.  Obviously with these EGT temps, I did not load the boat at all.  I decided I would report these findings and get some input before I go any further

 

                                 Port Engine                                                Starboard Engine

RPM 1000                      0 psi     400 deg                                     0  psi    300 deg.  

           1500                      0 psi      850 deg                                    0  psi     500 deg

           2000                     5 psi     1350 deg                                   2   psi     750 deg

           2500                     10 psi     1500 deg                                 7    psi     1200 deg

           3000                     17  psi     < 1500 deg                            12   psi     1350 deg

           3300                     22 psi     <1500 deg                             18  psi      1450 deg

 

Recordings are pre-turbo.

 

I purchased the exhaust flanges from here to build a new exhaust system.  I had them tapped for probes.  I intend to copy Shooters exhaust system.

 

Any engine issues I should consider looking into for the super high temperatures, or is this just a matter of overworking the engines from propping?

Thanks!

[Shannon Ritzert]

Tony,

I photo tached when I started this diagnostic. 

 

“Real live tach data Both tachometer gauges show to read about 100 rpm faster than a photo tach. These engines are supposed to high idle at 3300 rpm according to the data tag, but they actually high idle at 3800 rpm. Should I back the high idle adjustment to only allow these engines to tack at 3300?”….. This is at the dock in neutral.

 

WOT taching reading by gauges, at the moment, not loaded is 3400 rpm.  So once I get it loaded with people and gear, that will come down.  The propellers are in poor shape too.

My original thoughts were that I am over propped at 22×24, and to have the props cut down to 21 inch, and change the pitch to 22 inch. 

I’ll weight the boat out, and get some recordings,  then get the props sent in. 

[Author]

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