White smoke, black soot

[Justin]

Heres’ what going on with my 6CTA 8.3s, CPL 2172 with about 1280 hours. I am hoping to get some answers and instructions on what to do. I posted my questions on another forum, but no specific answers there yet.

My engines have always been rather smokey since I´ve owned the boat (for just over two years now). As of late, however, they have gotten ridiculously smokey at startup. When I say smokey, I mean my dock neighbors flee, wildlife disperses, and Google Earth can spot it on satellites. The smoke is white with maybe a tiny bit of gray. The water temperature is 60 degrees. The starboard engine seems a little worse. I am getting voltmeter fluctuation, suggesting the air heaters are engaging. At startup, the stb has begun to idle roughly, with fluctuating RPMs enough to make the synchronizer gauge show it clearly. When the engines are hot, the there is much less smoke, but still probably more than any other boat in the marina. I recently completed a 962 NM trip from the Great Lakes to the Mid Atlantic with 1209 gallons of diesel burned. On the trip, I had to scrub the entire transom and cockpit daily because it was getting covered in black soot. On the trip I noticed that the stb was consuming a bit more fuel, maybe 5-8% more. It was after this trip that the amount of smoke from both engines got really bad. It also it not quite making the speed it used to, with maybe a knot or so less for given RPM. It could also be the way the boat is loaded, though, which is very heavy. I am pretty sure I can´t blame it on a bad batch of fuel because I went through several tanks on my trip. Maintenance so far has been new oil filters with changes, changes of racors, fuel filters, coolant filters, new coolant, zincs, transmission fluid, impellers, and also after cooler service according to Tony’s excellent online instructions. and Any ideas what is going on? I would appreciate your ideas and suggestions. Thanks,

Justin

 

 

Topic

[Rob Schepis]

Justin,

Okay, good on the tach check and clean bottom….never want to overlook the basics.

Usually the increase in WOT rpm’s makes up for the pitch reduction but you “may” see some speed loss, maybe not..some variables here with the prop work..

The tstats and pan heaters are available here: http://www.sbmar.com/store/

[Justin]

Tony, can you point me to a source for a procedure to adjust valves?

Justin

 

[Justin]

Rob, I photo tached the engines some time ago to find out why the helm gauges did not agree. I found the port side to be the correct one and that is what I used to state performance numbers.

The bottom has been pretty clean from haul outs and also because up until August I kept it on the beautiful, clear great lakes.

[Rob Schepis]

Couple more ??'s

Unless I missed it – Have the engines been photo-tach’d ?

Also, how often is this boat hauled or dove under to check the bottom & running gear conditions and cleanliness?

[Justin]

Tony,

Thanks for the advice. I will take off the pitch first thing. After I take 3 inches off, will I have a huge speed penalty? Do you sell the thermostats? Can my injectors be converted to 5 holes or do I have to buy all new ones? Do I need any timing/valve adjustments as well?

Justin

[Tony Athens]

If you really want to solve the issues, this is where you need to start———-

 

#1—————-Your engines, when received were propped to the edge as to load——Now they are way over propped.. You have early CPL2172’s and they were very sooty engine on plane from day 1 when propped to the max. Now you are 200 RPM over over-propped because of changes in the boat–This is not an engine issue–Remember what moves the boat–The propellers and yout boat is going quite a bit slower even though they are spinning the same RPM—–Take out not less than 3″ of pitch the engine will not free up and “breath” .. They need to run up easy to OVER 2700 ,or to an  accurate 2725-2750 RPM. The difference will be noticeable on trip #1.You cannot underprop this engine–you can only OVER PROP IT and you have be running in the “overpropped mode” since you bought the boat.

 

2) Get yourself new 180F thermostat kits–Major change in white smoke after just ONE full trip.

3) Put on 250W oil pan heaters and run them 24-7-365 at the dock

 

4) Upgrade to 5-hole injectors–major difference as to transom sooting–That makes your engine become CPL8089 as to their spec.

5)  adjust you valves–Run thru them TWICE.

Tony

[Justin]

Thanks for your reply. I’ll answer your questions in order:

Boat speed last season: cruise 19 knots at 2,200, top WOT 24 at 2600

Boat speed this season: Cruise 17.5 knots at 2,200 top WOT 22 at 2550

My cruise RPM is 2200

I took out the aftercoolers and split them, removed the cores, cleaned them, and reassembled them with the grease supplied by your shop, all on the bench and done according to instructions.

I bought the boat 9/9/14 with 945 hours.

There was a lot of white smoke then, but mostly when the water was colder. When I delivered the boat from Chicago to Detroit, there was considerable sooting on the transom and cockpit then as well. On my last trip there was so much soot it was garnering comment on the docks, “Must be bad injectors?,” “Got some bad fuel?” they would ask.

The boat has about 1275 hours now. I cruise at either 1200 which puts me at about 8 knots or 2200 which is in the 17-18 range, when it used to be almost 19.

Coolant temp is showing 175 when on plane and as soon as I come off they cool to 150 or so.

The engines light right up when cold. I wouldn’t even have to preheat. The only exception is the port engine when the fuel tank goes below half. I am losing prime on that side for unknown reasons at this time, so that is another day and priority. When that happens it takes a few more turns on the starter or otherwise I pump the primers.

I do not warm the engines at the dock. I usually cast off as soon as I can get the lines off. I wait until I get 140 degrees or so before throttling past 1200.

The valves have not been adjusted.

 

I hope I answered your questions. Thanks.

Justin

 

 

[Tony Athens]

Let’s give a solid answer to Rob questions:

 

Dark smoke –

~~Post your historic vessel speed vs. rpm data

~~Post your historic WOT rpm

~~Post your current speed vs. rpm data

~~Post your current WOT rpm

You mention that aftercoolers were serviced as per Tony’s instruction.  Just to double confirm, that included core removal for air side cleaning, & done on the bench—correct?

Add to the list:

 

1)  How long have you owned the boat–Years and hours

2) When did “all the smoke” start?

3) What is the main RPM that you use from cruising?  Speed?

4) Do you run on plane at time?  If so, RPM and vessel speed?

5) What is you coolant temp at your main cruise RPM and when on plane?

6) when you slow down to docking speeds, what is you coolant temperature?

7) does your engine start super easy when cold?

8) do you try and warm the engine up at the dock?

9) Have the valves been adjusted?

 

Tony

 

 

 

[Justin]

After reading the suggested articles I will get accurate readings to see if I am getting the turns that the tach says. I know that my tachometers do not read equally. When my engines are synched there is a 150 rpm difference in readings. Last time I checked them I found the port tach to be accurate, so I always synch the engines to that side. The article does a pretty convincing job convincing me that I must be overloaded. If I am getting black soot all over the back of the boat, that would make sense, no? Maybe it’s not injectors? Is the next step to take pitch off if I am not reaching 2700

I know that my engines will put out white smoke. But this much can’t be normal. And then there are the majority of those who will recommend taking out the air heaters….? What’s the answer here? I don’t think it’s normal for people to look and point wondering if the fire department needs to come out. Let alone those on deck handling lines…guests….smoke in the boat….dock neighbors…

[Justin]

Here are some pics. If you want to see something in particular just let me know. Thanks.

[Rob Schepis]

2 Colors of Smoke = 2 Issues..

White smoke –

Have you read through the below link?

http://www.sbmar.com/articles/what-is-white-smoke/

 

Dark smoke –

Post your historic speed vs. rpm data

Post your historic WOT rpm

Post your current speed vs. rpm data

Post your current WOT rpm

You mention that aftercoolers were serviced as per Tony’s instruction.  Just to double confirm, that included core removal for air side cleaning, correct?  How many engine hours ago was that and what do you have for a CCV system?

Have you read these that all pertain to Dark smoke?:

http://www.sbmar.com/articles/understanding-low-power-troubleshooting/

http://www.sbmar.com/articles/boost-egt-and-horsepower/

http://www.sbmar.com/articles/engine-life/

[Justin]

Yes, sure thing. I will take some this afternoon and post. Thanks

[Corey Schmidt]

Let's start with pictures

Justin, let’s start this process by seeing pictures of your engines as installed in the boat so we can all get a feel for how you’re currently setup…

[Author]

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