Cabin Bilge water issues

[lawrencekahlden]

This site has helped me so much in the past on some engine issues and I surely appreciate all the expertise and shop on here when I need parts in order to pay back. 

I have a very strange cabin bilge issue and while my boat is in the dealership this week to replace my battery chargers I was going to get them to look at this issue.  However they have been known to always find something expensive wrong. 

I added 3 pictures below.  I have a 2007 Searay Sundancer 40 DA.  In pic 1 I am standing by the stairs looking toward the bow bedroom. The bilge nearest the bedroom is where the bow thruster is located.  The cable rotted or whatever you want to call it due to saltwater getting in that bilge for years.  I started noticing recently when the bow thruster went out.  My fault for not paying attention.  So now the water seems to get up to about an inch and stop there. When I go on and off plane the water moves toward the back of the boat and an alarm goes off and it bilges out while I am driving it.  

The next 2 bilge compartments are higher up and where all the plumbing for the shower runs thru and there is a sump pump.  Water rarely gets up this high unless the boat is rocking.  

So that brings me to my biggest issue.  IN pic 3 you see the bilge by the stairs and it is actually about 2.5 or so inches down from the middle 2 compartments I mentioned.  So I wet vacced the water out and by the time I sucked out 3 gallons I come back in and it has risen back to 1.25 inches and sits there for awhile.  It may get higher overnight and bilge out but I am in the house so I dont see it happen. But during the day for some reason it sits at that height. So every few days I bilge it out.  It never gets high enough to get back to the sump pump because it sits down too low.  

So where the heck can this be coming from?  I am 99% sure it is salt water due to the finger test taste. Plus I pulled water out and tested it.  I have kept my AC off and water pump off and really nothing is on the boat while parked.  So I was thinking maybe my water tank but then again it tastes like salt.  I dont want to get ripped off.  Taking the boat out of water costs 600$ and then who knows what they will do.  This has to have been going on for years unnoticed because I hear the bilge going off when I go on and off plane.  

Pics are below.  Any hints or suggestions would surely be appreciated.  My engine bilge is mostly bone dry.  A very very slow leak maybe where the depth transducer is. 

Topic

[lawrencekahlden]

Well someone had mentioned to me to close the raw water intake for the AC. So I closed the seacock for the AC and used the wet vac twice more. It got to where it would rise to only a half inch instead of 1.25. This morning I looked and used it twice more and now the floor of that compartment is barely covered in water. So that looks like it may be the issue. Now the question is how to solve it and be able to use the AC. Somehow water was rising into the inlet and moving toward the front of the boat. I am guessing the water gets up to the water level in the inlet and since the boat leans forward it moves it up there. So now I just need to figure how to make that stop. But at least now I dont have to worry about water constantly being in the cabin bilge unless I use the AC
As far as the bow thruster bilge I still have not solved it. But the water comes in way way slower. Thanks for the help on this site as I always appreciate it .

[lawrencekahlden]

Thanks.  I may have made some progress.  Will have to look tomorrow.  But one suggestion was to turn off the seacock for the ac raw water input and clean the strainer. I kept that off and wet vac3 times.  After the last time it seems so far the water only got back to a half inch.  I had other things I had to do but if it is there in the morning then I will continue to vac out and maybe it will stop. If that is the case then that would be the source of the water coming in.  But where it is happening from remains an issue.  But just hoping now that I am going to not see a rise in the morning. 

[Rob Schepis]

The white is gelcoat the brown is resin. 

[lawrencekahlden]

The 2 new pics attached are of the white stringy fiberglass on the bottom of the pic I sent way back in the back of that bilge.  I pulled it forward with a stick.  Seems to be white on one side and brown on the other. Apparently it was the bottom part of the tray.  But as you can see the white is just painted fiberglass.  You can see the stringy like material which is hard like fiberglass.  Once I get the camera I will see but it now looks like the water is running down the back part of this compartment.  Hell I have no clue at this point where it is coming from 

[lawrencekahlden]

<p><p style=”padding-left: 80px;”>Steve thanks a lot.  I looked up the foam issue and it scared me.  But I have a 2007 so should be ok from what you said.  I ordered one of those endoscope cameras so it should be here when I get back from a vegas trip Feb 1.  Thanks for the info and it seems I am getting closer. But it does look like the water is kind of bubbling up from the bottom right were you see that white piece.  I cant tell what it is. but seems to be fiberglass.  It for sure doesnt seem to be the hole coming in on the side.  I had a rag on a stick and put it up against that hole while it was filling up.  It didnt get wet. So it is coming from the floor right there. </p</p>
<p>It just looks like it is coming up from the bottom.  The camera will solve that for me. But the boat goes in monday.  So I will either let them check it out and try to screw me or take it back and find another place to deal with it.  But I have waited 90 days for them to be able to get me in.  No one is working anymore. Everyone is hiring here and I could not find one repair place to take me sooner. And there are at least 30 plus over here </p>

[Steve Lewis]

As I understand it, the ’06 and newer dancers have solid bottoms.  I Called Sea Ray with my HIN on the 2006 40 Dancer and asked about the hull.  They said solid bottom.  I believe you have foam cored fiberglass stringers. so I might place the water bubbling up through the bottom on the back burner.  That amount of water coming up through your hull would probably present structural issues.  The back left corner of the latest picture looks to have a limber hole (hole through the stringer) so you might be getting water from a rather interesting place and it is making its way around. I know that I got a decent amount of water that would collect in the low spot with the bilge pump in the engine compartment.  Right there by the bulkhead.  I would vacuum it out as the bilge pump would not get that  last couple of inches out of there.  It would not fill in immediately.  I could not find a source so I just kind of wrote it off as Rain water that would find its way through whatever pathway it could find. If you have a GoPro or know someone who has one that you can borrow, you might place it in the compartment that collects the water and then record as you vacuum the water out and then see if you can see where it is coming from.  Not quite sure what else to tell you at this point.

[lawrencekahlden]

Well another person told me that some of the older boats have foam under the plywood which is inaccessible and it if gets wet it takes forever to dry out?  does that make sense?I added another pic which is a snapshot of a video.  I can see water movement right around the “white” spot you see on the left back of this pic.  It looks like intertwined fiberglass like some of the fiberglass strands that pull off the sides of that compartment.   It could be that or some foam ?  But the water is not coming from that hole you see to the left and upper part from the white spot.   So if it isnt coming down from the holes on both sides it seems to be bubbling up from the bottom. So the foam thing may make sense?

[lawrencekahlden]

got ya.  Ok I turned the seacock off and cleaned strainer.  About to go clean out all the bilges several times and see what happens. Since the last response I noticed something.  I am reattaching the pics. pic 1 looking toward the bow.  The furthest up front is bow thruster.  Pic 2 is looking to the back of the boat.  you can see the sump pump  That area never fills unless I am driving and water moves from another areapic 2 is also looking to the back.  If you look below the sump you see another compartment with the bilge pump and float switch.  When I wet vac that clean it fills back up about 1.25 inches and sits.  So I reached way back and there are in fact a hole on each side near the back. So the water has to be coming from one of those.  I need to find where those lead to.  I can feel the hole closest to the port side but not the other one so may only be one.  But going out back to work on it 

[Steve Lewis]

That sea water pump feeds cooling water to both AC units.  which is why you need to turn that pump switch on and then turn on either or both AC unit switches on your electrical panel there in the salon.  You will hear a relay click when either unit kicks on and wants cooling water.  So you hear a click, the pump turns on and then the AC Compressor turns on. 

[lawrencekahlden]

Another update. In the compartment below the one with the sump pump bilge so pic 3 I did find the holes to what drains into there.  They are located on both sides way near the back of that area.  But I dont know what is outside of those areas that would leak into this bilge.  Still working on it  So I added pic 3 again.  If you go back beyond the bilge pump and float switch ( not the one in the sump box) almost all the way back until you hit a wall there are holes on both sides. So once I pump the water out the water comes from one or both of those 2 holes to fill it back up. So maybe when I clean it up after turning off the AC seacock off that will solve the problem   Crossing my fingers but not confident 

[lawrencekahlden]

Looking thru the manual it mentions the strainer and seacock for the AC but it doesnt show a diagram to where they are located like it does for the engine and generator.  I am going to go thru every illustration again to see where I can find it. I have a hopeful feeling this is the issue.   UPDATEI found the seacock and strainer for the AC. I wonder if it is for both AC units?  Anyway about to get to work on wet vac them out totally and see what happens once AC is totally closed off from the salt water 

[Steve Lewis]

If your engine room layout is the same as ours was then the strainer for the AC unit is right next to the pump which is next to the thru hull fitting which has a ball valve.  Should be right there easy to access.  I recall having to clean out the AC strainer once a year.  The zebra mussels in the Great Lakes collected in the AC unit strainer.  Funny thing they did not collect in the main engine strainers……….Also as I recall the AC pump has an interesting build.  The actual pump impeller is magnetically coupled to the drive shaft of the electric motor(at least that was the product write up).  So even though the motor is not turning, I theorize that water can move through that system and since the thru hull is down on the bottom there is decent water pressure pushing in.

[lawrencekahlden]

Good ideas STeve and I am going out to check those.  Now the Bow Thruster portion is not the same leak as the one by the stairs. I know that because I totally blocked off any way for the bow thruster water to get past that area.  I do have 2 AC units with one under the bed and the other by the stairs.  I pulled out the fridge and it is bone dry by the ac unit near the back as I have kept it off.  The tray was rusty the AC guy told me so instead of replacing at the time I have not used it since the bedroom one really is enough So with the above being said I did wrap a rag around the bow thruster tube and taped it up. The next day there was water down in there but the rag was totally dry.  I also put a container where the water could drip from the tube into but they were also dry;  I am going to dry it up and lay down some towels on the bottom to see what gets wet first  I need to find the thru hull fitting for the AC pump. I also need to find the pump strainer for the AC. I see 3 strainers in the back of the boat. One for each engine and one for the generator. I need to locate the one for the AC plus the thru hull fitting for the AC.  The pump for the AC I think is up against the bulkhead wall in the engine bilge below the electrical panel on the wall   Well this gives me more things to look at and eliminate 

[Steve Lewis]

Give the following a try and see if this helps.  Close the thru hull fitting for the Air Conditioner pump.  Just turning off the AC is not enough.  Use your wet vac to remove all of the water in the AC Pump strainer and remove the sitting water that is in your thruster bilge compartment.  My brain is going to raw water cooling side of your AC unit that is under the bed in the master stateroom.  Our last boat was an ’06 40DA.  Even though we are in fresh water, that unit was rusty and the water outlet that goes thru the hull up at the bow was super dirty all of the time.  The buyer of our 40 when we sold indicated that he was going to remove that unit and sand all of the rust from the drip pan etc……..You might have a leak where the raw cooling water enters the unit or somewhere in that circuit.  So by shutting the thru hull you can fully stop that water source.  Clean up the existing standing water and see if closing the thru hull stops the leak.  You can also remove the mattress and bedding and lift the access panel to see the unit and see if there are signs of water from the AC Unit dripping or otherwise.

Best case you found the leak…..  Worst case you have eliminated a possible source of the water and you can keep looking elsewhere.

Also did you try feeling the underside of the thruster tube to feel for wetness?  How about where the thruster shaft goes through the tube?  Is there wetness there indicating a seal is not doing its job?  Like Rob said this one needs more detective work but if the source is in the bow area then you have limited options as to where it is coming in.

[lawrencekahlden]

Rob  You brought up some interesting points I didnt know.  Such as all bilges being connected.  I can see these 4 connected but cant see where the engine bilge connects to these.   Looking at the pics I added if you look to where the bow thruster is located I plugged the holes up that connect to the 2 long compartments so water cant get out of that bilge.  Well that bilge fills slowly to like an inch high and stays at that level.  I assume it is coming in somehow related to the bow thruster.  I say that noting one of the cables wires corroded I am assuming from the salt water.  But anyway that water is not moving toward the back while I am doing my research because I blocked it up. It will only move if I open the hole or when driving the boat

Now moving toward the one in pic 3 where it drops down a few inches that compartment fills up immediately to one 1.25 inches high and kind of sticks at that level and never hits the switch to start the bilge.  Unless it happens after 8 hours of observing and overnight.  So it just stays at one level but wont rise higher.  That tells me it is coming from somewhere where the level is at that level but where?  I look in the bilge after vaccuuming out and it seems to be coming from the furthest back part of the bilge but there are no thru holes to get to that.  Now above that compartment is where the AC hoses come in at.  But I have had the AC and water pump off this whole 2 weeks I have been searching for this.   So where could the water be coming from to get to this one in pic 3 the furthest back?  My engine bilge is bone dry.  I tasted the water and it had a heavy salt taste.  I also boiled some of it and it left lots of salt residue. I was hoping it was fresh water but I dont think it is.

There is one more hatch between pic 3 and the engine bilge.  It is under the bed in the aft bedroom.  It is like a 8 inch wide by 1 foot long bilge area but no holes anywhere that I can see.  And it gets some water in it after a long period of time sitting there. I have not tasted that water yet. But it is minimal and takes months to get to one inch high.  So I am assuming it is coming from one of the hull fittings below the water line.  It sucks because I had it bottom painted a year ago and the shaft seals replaced last summer.  After the shaft seals got replaced they had to bring it back out to fix a small leak from the stuffing box I think they said. I may be wrong on where from. So saying the above I am guessing they have to take the boat out of the water afterall.  The dealership does have a rep of upselling repairs.  Anyway thanks for the hints and I will start looking on some of what you told me. 

[Rob Schepis]

So all bilges from stern to bow are connected, right?  And she sits bow down enough at rest that water collects in the forward most bilge compartments, right? And your confident it is seawater, right?  If yes, yes and yes, then this could be coming from anywhere from the transom to the bow.  Entering via hull  fittings below the waterline or from any raw water component or raw water plumbing below the waterline.  Not going to be very effective to solve via a forum.  Only way is to get all bilge sections DRY and then monitor all sections carefully to see where the water originates (not collects).

[Author]

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