Raw water pump replacement

[JimmyK]

OK, so I have had a couple SMX pumps sitting on my shelf for a while now waiting until I have the time to install. Well, it appears that one of my sherwood pumps is weeping saltwater so it is now time to make time rather than wait for the free time to do this.

My question is about jacking the engine/removing the engine support bracket. I was under the impression that this had to be done because the pump will not clear the engine support bracket. But I just watched this short series of videos done by a 6BTA DIYer where he states (and shows) that the pump can clear the bracket (at least in his situation) and he jacks the engine up only so he can get access to the bottom/inside bolt and get it off. But, he doesn’t remove the bracket from the engine. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sADA72EB40s&ab_channel=NorthwestMariner

The reason I’m asking is that based on the layout of my boat, it is going to be VERY hard for me to jack up the engine and VERY VERY hard to get the engine bracket off on the port side. I’m trying to develop a mental game plan so that when I make the time to do this, I can start it and finish it in a single day rather than have to stop to change the game plan/get new tools/jacks/etc. So any tips in general are appreciated, especially if they include experience doing it with this part of the engine up tight to a stringer & very difficult access. Any tips/ideas on how to jack up the engine when it is hard (maybe impossible) to get down under that front left corner of the engine due to access are very much appreciated. The pump has to come out, so I will gain access one way or another but hoping to advance my learning curve by hearing what worked for others.

More than anything though, I’d really appreciate a direct answer to the question: do you need to remove the engine support bracket to get the old pump off and/or the new pump on?

Thanks

Topic

[JimmyK]

pwrobert, thanks for chiming in. it is definitely nuts how this whole bracket/pump system was designed. with that said, I can tell you that for my port engine, removing the bracket & isolator mount was probably the easiest part of the whole job and regardless of whether or not you ‘can’ get the pump off without removing those things, I would remove them to make the rest of the job easier. I was a little intimidated by the idea of figuring out how to support the motor and removing that stuff but it really wasn’t that big of a deal and improves access dramatically to complete the job. if I were to do it again I wouldn’t sweat any of it…it’s easy once you know what needs to be done…just time consuming due to the # of steps. again, just for my boat and my experience. for some boats where you can get at everything with the mount in place, it may be worthwhile.
tight lines.

[pwrobert]

Consider a different mount?

When I repowered with my Diamond 370’s a couple of years ago I had Tony and the guys make all my engine, transmission mounts along with the exhaust system. I was told before I installed the engines about the Sherwood issue and read Tony’s article about the SMX replacement and the issue with the pump/mount clearance.

Talking this over with Tony he made for me a set of Port Side engine mounts that place the support arm well out of the way.

Water pump removal for servicing is not a one time deal and to know that you have all this to look forward to again… Maybe while you’ve got things apart and have to re-align anyway you change out the Port Mounts and reset the Bracket one time.

If this was something that only had to be address at engine rebuild intervals that my be different but water pumps

[JimmyK]

Mike, like yours, my boat has no tower, but does have a hardtop, generator, swim platform. Get your throttle linkage squared and then I bet you’re looking at removing an inch of pitch to get over 3000rpm at WOT assuming your engines are making ‘full’ power.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mike Uliasz

[JimmyK]

OK, maybe a bit too detailed and a lot of this stuff will only be specific to this particular boat, but I think people like me will appreciate reading through this before tackling this job, so I write this for the guy about to do this job for the first time to get some ideas from. Of course there’s more than one way to skin a cat but this is what I would do if I did it again.

1. Turn off your fuel supply & return valves on from fuel tank
2. Close engine raw water supply thru hull if you’re in the water
3. I removed the exhaust mixer elbow from the turbo to make it easier to access the sea strainer (four 10mm hex head bolts). I also like the idea of doing this to exercise bolts so that they’re not impossible to get off when you need them to. This is probably not 100% necessary but I think it saves time and makes it easier for 2 people to occupy this small space
4. Disconnect the raw water supply hose from the output of the sea strainer. Remove any support clamps on this hose between the strainer & pump.
5. Determine how to jack up (probably more accurate to say ‘support’) the corner of your engine with the pump. I would recommend stealing the idea from this thread of using a large bolt with a nut. Maybe instead of using a stack of washers I would use a large ¾” drive socket. If you would prefer to buy something to use, something like this would work: mcmaster.com and search for 2915T21
6. Build a wooden support for your ‘jack’. Measure the deadrise of your boat under the engine using your phone. My boat is 23°. Measure from the inside of the inboard stringer, along the inside of the hull to the spot where you will support the engine. This measurement was about 16” for my boat on the port side. For my boat on the port side, I cut a piece of wood (picture below) with a 23° angle on one end and a 67° angle on the other end (90°-23°=67°). Cut it so that it is about two inches longer than your measurement long point to long point (so about 18”). Add a cup hook so you can grab it with something to retrieve it. This piece of wood is going to put a flat surface right where your temp support (jack) will go
7. Once your jack system is set up and in place, remove the top nuts on your isolator holding the engine bracket in place.
8. Adjust your jack so that it relieves the force on the engine bracket. If you have a washer underneath the bracket, you can tell the force is relieved as the washer will be able to slide around under the bracket
9. Once you’re confident the jack is stable and isn’t going anywhere, remove the bracket from the engine (3 bolts with 15mm hex heads)
10. Remove the isolator for even better access; be sure that you do not move the lower nut
11. Remove the fuel cooler if present (and consider completely removing it for good), remove the hose between the pump & aftercooler if fuel cooler has been removed previously
12. Remove the four bolts holding the output nipple on the pump (13mm hex heads), set it out of the way
13. Remove the fuel line from the input of lift pump and get it out of the way (have a rag handy to absorb any fuel)
14. Remove the fuel line from the output of the lift pump and get it out of the way (have a rag handy to absorb any fuel)
15. Remove the fuel return line from the injection pump return fitting, get it out of the way (have a rag handy to absorb any fuel). Note that you’re removing the fuel lines just to give yourself as much access as possible.
16. Remove the four bolts holding your combi block to the engine, and gently pull it aft and hold it in place with a piece of wire if necessary. You’ll be able to move it about 3 inches.
17. Remove the two bolts holding the pump to the engine (15mm hex heads). Both bolts should be pretty easy to access without the bracket & isolator present, but a flex end ratcheting combination wrench will come in handy here.
18. Pull the pump out from the engine and then up (pulling the raw water hose with it) until you can get decent access to the raw water supply hose
19. Remove supply hose from pump
20. Remove pump, remove the bottom nipple from the pump (13mm hex heads), say a prayer to remove its curse from your boat, launch pump into nearest trash bin or unsuspecting terrorist
21. Remove old supply hose from boat, use it to cut new hose to length (may want to leave it an extra 1-2” long)
22. Route new hose; I found it easiest to route from strainer to pump. Attach strap about 6-8” below end of hose nearest the pump and fasten w/hose clamp. Put the end of the hose a couple inches below where it’ll end up when the pump is installed.
23. Install new pump with gasket, torque bolts
24. Install bottom nipple to pump with new o-ring, using an o-ring safe lubricant to help keep o-ring in place during install. Leave bottom nipple bolts a little loose so nipple can be swiveled but not so loose the o-ring can unseat. Generously apply hose lube to nipple and inside diameter of supply hose which should be positioned an inch or so below the nipple at this point
25. Make sure hose clamps are on pump end of hose.
26. With the aid of a helper pushing the hose towards you as you lay across both engines, guide the hose onto the nipple. You’re just trying to get the hose started here…this might be the hardest part. Having a long screwdriver between the hose & stringer might help. One hand on the nipple and wiggle/align them with helper pushing.
27. With the hose now just starting to go onto the nipple, swivel the input nipple so that it keeps the supply hose as straight as possible and tighten the four bolts holding the nipple to the pump.
28. Now using the strap, pull the hose onto the nipple while your helper pushes at the same time. “1-2-3 PUSH” as you pull on the strap. Repeat until hose is completely on
29. Fasten hose in place with high quality constant tension clamps. You really don’t want to have to go back and address a leak here. Remove strap.
30. At this point you’re pretty much home free. Check all your bolts & clamps twice at this point as going back and doing it after this step would be painful.
31. Install isolator & engine bracket, torque all bolts
32. Remove jack & wood support
33. Install isolator top nut(s)
34. Put combi block back with the four 15mm hex head bolts
35. Install output nipple to pump with new o-ring being careful to make sure o-ring doesn’t fall out or get pinched when you flip the nipple over
36. Install plumbing between pump & aftercooler (fuel cooler location)
37. Reconnect any fuel hoses you removed
38. Cut supply hose to final length at sea strainer if necessary
39. Lube barb and attach hose to strainer barb fitting with clamps
40. Replace any support clamps that were removed for the supply hose
41. Reassemble exhaust elbow (be sure to use anti seize on these 4 bolts), it is OK to reuse the metal gasket between the turbo & elbow if it isn’t damaged.
42. Open sea cock, check for leaks if in the water
43. If not in the water, supply strainer with water (I just remove the strainer cap and stick a hose in and turn it on full with the sea cock open)
44. Start engine, carefully inspect for fuel & water leaks at all connections as well as proper water flow from exhaust. Note that you might need to bleed the fuel system but these engines seem pretty easy to bleed

[Mike Uliasz]

Jimmy thanks for checking the props and proving all the detail on the port pump install. Do you have a tower or second station on top. I don’t, but have a hard top, swim platform and generator. Throttle cables are next on the list.

[JimmyK]

Mike, I checked and my props are indeed 23×23 with a 7 cup. If I were you I would get the throttle adjustments correct and see where you end up WOT but I feel my props are dialed in just right

I was able to get the hose on with a helper. I had a helper pushing the hose to me (absolutely necessary) AND used Donald’s recommendation of wrapping a strap around the hose about 8″ down from the end that fits onto the pump. I tightened a hose clamp (that eventually holds the hose onto the pump) onto the strap so it wouldn’t slip. I also removed the fuel combi block bolts and used a length of wire to pull the block a few inches away from the hose, which definitely helped getting the hose started on the nipple. Having a helper push while I guided the hose onto the pump nipple was a bit of a challenge but only took about 15 minutes. I found I had to have the pump nipple a little loose so I could adjust the ‘clock position’ of the nipple to help align it with the hose,. Having something like a big screw driver to apply leverage to the end of the hose (screwdriver between the stringer and hose) helps steer the hose in the right direction. Having a a really strong grip (like I used to have) would be most helpful. Once we got the hose started on the nipple, it took a lot of pushing by the helper with me pulling on the strap to get the hose on, about 1/8″ at a time. I will post some pictures as well as a step by step when I get a chance. I feared this pump changeout would be a total pain…and it definitely was…but doable for anyone with moderate mechanical skills.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mike Uliasz

[Mike Uliasz]

I’m not making full throttle on the throttle lever, had a mechanic confirm it. No load 3000 now, but did make 3300 prior to replacing the old wore out throttle clamp/holder. Once the props were re-pitched to 23 x 24, she planes easily and there is not any transition smoke getting over the hump. I used prop-speed last spring after tuning the props and she sat in a covered slip all winter. Lost a 1/2 knot on the first quick run, back to normal on the second trip out. Appreciate the replies

[JimmyK]

Obviously you’re either over propped or not making full travel on the throttle lever or something else is going on. Your numbers are close to mine before taking out some pitch, so I’m thinking I was 23×24 but I could always make 3000rpm at 30/31knots prior to removing some pitch. I just took out some pitch to give the engines an easier life…boat planes effortlessly now, especially noticeable late in the season when there is a bit of growth on the bottom.

You should be able to fix your throttle travel issue very easily by adjusting your throttle controls & cables. I wouldn’t put that off, if only to confirm you’re propped OK.

[Mike Uliasz]

Thanks for the info. Makes me feel like I’m in line with being propped currently or at least 90% there. My props were stamped 23 x 27 – 7 cup out of the factory, but were actually 23 x 26 – 7 cup and were tuned to 23 x 24 – 7 cup after my first season, when I provided the prop shop with the boat specs and said I’m estimating it needs to pick up approximately 300 rpms. Clean bottom, 3/4 fuel I’m at:
2050 – 19.5 -20 knots
2250 – 21.5 -22 knots
2450 – 25 knots
2650 – 27 knots
2850 – 28 knots

Need to fix the issue with my throttles which are not hitting WOT, but It’s not on the top of my list. Sweet spot speed and noise wise is 2250-2300.

That’d be great on the step by step. Like to do what I can to the port side raw water pump and call my buddy in when I get over my head and to come by and cross check my work.
Thanks again for the info and good luck finishing the job!

[JimmyK]

Propscan details are in my log book on the boat but from memory they are 23×24 w/a 7 cup. Clean bottom heavily loaded I do 23knots at 2400rpm and 30knots at 3075rpm WOT. But I’m already questioning myself…they might be 23×23…I had a little pitch taken out of them to get closer to 3100rpm about 6 years ago and can’t remember if they went TO 23×24 or went FROM 23×24. I will check and let you know.

While I still haven’t gotten this job finished, I’m confident I’m close and I think if I had to do it over again it would take 2-3 hours doing it a second time, which includes removing the mixer from the turbo outlet to get better access to the sea strainer to swap the raw water supply hose to the pump. I will write up a step by step of what I would do if I had to do it again which might give you a leg up. I don’t think right handed or left handed matters, it’s going to kinda suck regardless.

[Mike Uliasz]

Jimmy,
You’re right on not having to remove the helm deck to change the port pump, checked it out this pasted weekend and it looks accessible and maybe better for a left handed person which I am LOL. Take it you have a Pursuit 3400? If so what’s your prop size/pitch and cruise at 2000, 2200, 2400?
Thanks

[JimmyK]

I don’t know what happened to my previous post. But, thanks Donald for the awesome idea. I think that is going to work and plan to try it.

Mike, the gear of the pump is (thankfully) exposed to engine oil. If the pump isn’t tight to the motor, oil is coming out. That’s not a shortcoming of the design and would be the same with an SMX pump. In my case the previous owner of the boat had the pump rebuilt (I have the invoice in my records) and the shop doing the R&R likely just didn’t properly torque the bolts. Fortunately I caught it during a pre-flight before any permanent damage was done. I will also tell you that there is no need to remove the helm deck to do the port pump (fortunately).

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mike Uliasz

[Mike Uliasz]

I’m still a little miffed on how and why oil can leak from the raw water pump. I’ve heard it mentioned once or twice B4 this. Is it leaking self-contained oil from the pump or from the engine crankcase?

‘Turns out one of the raw water pump bolts had vibrated out (of course the bottom/hard to reach one) and oil was leaking out around the pump.’
Thanks

[JimmyK]

Donald, thanks for chiming in, great idea! Yesterday I was looking at this ( https://www.alliedelec.com/product/pass-seymour/fc200u/71469094/ ) but at $85 and use it once and have to cut it off and toss it, I decided not to order it. Your idea of using a nylon strap is great…I’m thinking an old dog leash that I have laying around will be perfect (haven’t had a dog in 10 years but I can’t throw anything away). I think this idea is a winner, thank you for sharing it.

Mike, no need to remove the helm deck, that’s for sure. When I’m done I will put step by step directions on how I would do this if I did it again and my guess is that I would be able to do it in 2-3 hours the second time around, which includes removing the mixer from the turbo outlet in order to get better access to the sea strainer to replace the raw water supply hose.

[donald roth]

I use a length of “electricians rope” or flat nylon strap wrapped around the hose below the nipple, then fed up to a 2×4 lever that can be operated in the clear above the motor. May take a couple of adjustments to get the strap oriented properly, then you can apply some real force comfortably.
Use lots of lube, and a few choice words, and the hose will slide right into place.

[Mike Uliasz]

Jimmy,
Do you remember what the magic combination of socket attachments/extensions you came up with was?

3/8 in. Drive x 15 mm Universal Joint Socket (snap-on) fit with an extension, but broke early in the game due the bottom bolt being corroded and locked up tight. Then it got messy with multiple combinations of impact and regular sockets, universal joints, Budweiser’s and extensions.

You got me motivation to start looking at the port side. It’s looking more do able than I thought and left hander job hanging over the engine …

[JimmyK]

Yes, I realize some people ditch the combi blocks altogether. I honestly never really saw the need. It’s one thing if you’re installing a new engine to set it up that way from the start, but to run new fuel lines etc just to get rid of the block doesn’t seem worth it to me. And as mentioned I have multiple oil pressure senders so I’d have to figure that out with a different manifold or something. I’m thinking just temporarily unbolt it and drag it a few inches away (probably have to remove the oil pressure hose from the engine) to give me a tiny bit more precious room to work. Just want to make sure I’m not missing something. Looking at that video it appears you can access the connection of the oil pressure hose to the engine with the pump in place, which is good.

[Mike Uliasz]

Jimmy,
Your question, Does anyone see a problem with the idea of temporarily moving the combi block?

Watch the video, it recommends removing the combi block for good. I left mine on since there were 2 sensors.

[JimmyK]

Shame on me, no pictures. Day 1 I spent about an hour or so getting the bolts off the old pump and figuring out how I was going to jack up the motor and making a sketch of the piece of wood I needed to cut.

Day 2 was the rest of it and I forgot my phone. First time I’ve been without my phone since I can’t remember when. Honestly it was nice. But no pictures. I will take pictures when I go back that may help the next guy.

Helper pushing the hose to me is definitely Plan A and I think it’s a better than 50% chance of working. But when you can only work on it once or maybe twice a week, you need contingency plans. Does anyone see a problem with the idea of temporarily moving the combi block? I thought about eliminating it but (for some reason) I have 3 oil pressure senders tied to it! I assume one is for the gauge, one is for the alarm, and one is for ????

[Rob Schepis]

No pics?
I’d rather fight on a hose onto the elbow than have the hose already on the elbow and have a difficult time installing the elbow to the pump. I think a helper pushing the hose and you guiding it onto the elbow is the right plan..

[Author]

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