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  • #23935

    Tom Mann
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Bow Tie
    Engines: Cummins QSM11 660hp
    Location: Key West Fl
    Country: USA

    Hello all,
    I have a pair of 2004 QSM11’s recently the starboard side engine is burning a little more fuel and running 3-5 degrees hotter and 50-70 RPM’S behind the port engine. Subsequently I cannot hit 2340 at WOT. Previously both engine had no problem hitting 2340. My fuel filters, both the Racors (900’s) and the FS1009 were changed at 1180 hr, currently the engines have 1293 hrs. The bottom cleaned and props checked in the water. Props were serviced /prop scanned at 1020 hours and have not hit anything, no vibration at any RPM. Both engines are running well at RPM’s less than WOT, although the starboard side is running a little hotter and burns about 1-2 GPH more.
    I will be replacing all fuel filters including the FS1009 on the engine, hoping that it’s a fuel issue or just to eliminate the filters.

    I follow the maintenance schedule but I did not see anything regarding the injectors. Are they serviced as needed?

    Prior to the current issue everything was fine, the current issue started about 10 hours ago. I have posted yesterday’s SmartCraft numbers to give a better idea what I’m talking about. Fuel was at 310 gallons (tank holds 560) water was 80 gallons (tank holds 170) engine temps were: Port 163, starboard 167. Slightly higher temps at the higher RPMS.

    I used the engine synchronizer and without the synchronizer to get these readings, it made no difference.

    Port:
    RPM GPH.
    1300. 10.4
    1410. 12.1
    1500. 13.7
    1610. 15.7
    1810. 19.7
    1900. 21.4
    2000. 23.4
    2130. 27.8
    2260. 32.3
    2310. 31.8

    Starboard:
    RPM. GPH
    1300. 9.6
    1410. 13.2
    1500. 14.9
    1610. 18.3
    1810. 21.9
    1900. 25.5
    2000. 27.0
    2140. 28.8
    2210. 32.2
    2250. 32.4

    Any suggestions are greatly appreciated,
    Thank you!

    1 user thanked author for this post.
Viewing 9 replies - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
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  • #35945

    Tom Mann
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Bow Tie
    Engines: Cummins QSM11 660hp
    Location: Key West Fl
    Country: USA

    Hi,
    After propping down from 35ā€ to 33ā€ and retuning and balancing the props I have experienced some changes which Iā€™ll post here.

    The port and starboard engines are running closer temps at 1820 RPM cruise and 23 MPH speed:

    Temps @ 163p / 165s
    GPH 17.6p / 18.9s

    The engines are running better than before at all RPMs and make rated RPM of 2300 on both with WOT of 2360p / 2330s.

    Tony, in answering your response. Yes, I did repitch my props and it did make a big difference in the GPH, I saved a total of 5GPH between the two engines.

    Before reducing pitch, as I mentioned in the original post, I changed the fuel filters including the last chance filters. I will also mention that there was only a slight vacuum on the Racor filter guage, nothing out of the norm. The bottom was also cleaned. The black ā€œparticlesā€ were residue from the coolant leak that was repaired. I also mentioned that in the original post I had to replace the coolant tube that runs from the expansion tank to the top of the thermostat housing. Tony, I had called Brad, your parts guy to buy the tube. After describing it in detail to him, he said he would send a diagram via email in order to make sure it was the correct part? How many coolant cross over tubes that run from the expansion tank to the thermostat housing that run above the heat shield pan are there? Nevertheless, I never got the email and bought the $750 tube, O rings and new bolts from another shop. Just thought you should know as the owner why I didnā€™t buy the parts from you. Apparently, there was a very small crack in the flange weld of the coolant tube that had ā€œdrippedā€ down onto the exhaust manifold causing it to ā€œcookā€ becoming a paste. The paste eventually became hard and dropped down into the bilge in a small granular particals. After awhile there was no more evidence of these particals. Iā€™d also like to mention at no time did my engines overheat, I watch my SmartCraft SC5000 screen temps, oil psi, GPH, RPMS And volts any time I run the boat and check constantly while running

    What prompted me to search for the ā€œrootā€ of cause of the original issues was this: the starboard engine always ran very close to the port engine on all data since new (2004). So, It was puzzling as to why the change in temps, GPH, RPM at WOT? Iā€™m NOT saying that propping down wasnā€™t needed, it was and the engines run smoothly without breaking a sweat. I lost about .05 MPH at 1820 RPM, no big deal.

    In my original, original post I mentioned that I had the after coolers removed, benched, cleaned at 1187 hours. The issues that prompted my post was immediately after I had the coolers done. I found out the starboard side cross over to the cooler had a very slight leak. I found this out by going into engine compartment and putting my hand under the cross over. When I spoke to another boat owner with the exact same year, make, model, engines and problem from the ā€œother forumā€, he suggested that this is where I should look because he had the same issues and this was his fix.

    Evan though ALL gaskets and ā€œOā€ rings were replaced (and purchased by me through SB Marine) by my mechanic, who is a Cummins trained mechanic with 40 plus years as diesel mechanic. These things happen and it could be a bad gasket, incorrectly installed gasket, bad surface. I get it, stuff happens! Iā€™m just upset with the local Tech who told me there was nothing wrong with the starboard engine and then after trying to reflash the ECMā€™s to a recent version (10/17) couldnā€™t reflash the starboard side causing me to pay a $4000 shop bill and still have all of the same issues!

    I will say this, Tony, you were absolutely correct with the prop issue! Thank you. Reducing pitch was needed with or without correcting the original issue (which was causing the check engine light to come on and throwing a fault code of low intake pressure) higher temps and more fuel burn.

    Thank you,
    Tom Mann
    Bow Tie

    #35938

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Tom,

    #1 and this is the gospel for this engine–Until you prop down, “SUBSTANTIALLY” in your case, you will not solve your issue.. Once these engine are overloaded, you will never get your GPH numbers close to sync.

    Have you made a boost / PSI graph ?

    If the On-engine fuel filter is slightly clogged, it can skew the GPH numbers some as it’s on the the suction side of the fuel pump and the ECM may put out a less accurate reading.

    Black particles–Next time you see it, save them and let me see good pics.. Towards the gear end on the engine?

    How about posting some pics of your engines—- Turbos, aftercoolers, top of gear cooler area looking under the turbos/exhaust, exhaust riser.elbows, front lifting bracket area looking aft next to the head, etc. If the pics are good, you may “see” something you did’t think was there.

    Tony

    #35924

    Luke Nelson
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Southern Image
    Engines: QSC 8.3 540hp
    Location: Perth
    Country: Western Australia

    If any wants it if you change your numbers in the attached SS, it will draw your current fuel curve next the the desired to show which side of the line you are.

    #35923

    Steve
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Shenanigans
    Engines: 6CTA-8.3M (Diamond 450)
    Location: Baltimore, MD
    Country: USA

    Tom,

    What was the outcome here? Did you identify the issue with your SB engine? And did you reprop? Do you have new numbers based on reprop?

    Thanks
    Steve

    #23995

    Tom Mann
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Bow Tie
    Engines: Cummins QSM11 660hp
    Location: Key West Fl
    Country: USA

    Hi Rob,
    No manifold leak, I’ve inspected the engines for soot every time I’m in the bilge. I did notice some granular black particals under the engine, not a lot maybe 1/2-1 teaspoon. I’ve noticed it 5-6 weeks ago and cleaned it up, yesterday I noticed it again.

    6 weeks ago I replaced the coolant pipe that runs from the expansion tank to the thermostat housing. It had a small weep that would drip coolant down onto the heat sheald beneath it and then run down onto the exhaust heat shield at the manifold. When it hit the exhaust shield it would reduce to a sticky paste. After removing the old coolant pipe I cleaned everything with spray nine. I’m thinking that there may be some coolant residual that is now burning off in a granular form? Could this be something other than coolant residual?

    Additionally, yesterday I replaced the Racor 900 fuel filters with new filters. The boat ran a little better (not much) but better. They were due to be changed anyway. The engine filter, FS1009 I will replace when it arrives today. Stay tooned!

    When I get get this issue straightened out I’ll know better how much pitch to remove. Right now, I think the numbers are skewed because of the issue at hand.

    Thank you,
    Tom Mann

    #23987

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Any sign of a manifold leak?
    The pitch adjustment will be significant ~2-3″.
    Need to provide a conservative hp rating to a good prop shop.
    What exact QSM’s?

    #23960

    Tom Mann
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Bow Tie
    Engines: Cummins QSM11 660hp
    Location: Key West Fl
    Country: USA

    Thanks Rob

    Rob, I believe Tony’s numbers are where I want to be. But, I think I have another issue to deal with first. Both engines have been run at a normal daily cruise of 1820 RPM’s burning 18-19 GPH each. Today, the port has increased GPH slightly but the starboard has increased its burn dramatically, possibly the starboard engine lack of performance puts more load on the port side?

    I put about 200-250 hours a year on the boat. I want to resolve the differences in the engines before I decrease the pitch. What do you think the pitch should be reduced by. The props are 28×35’s. What should the pitch be reduced by to get to Tony’s numbers?

    Thanks for your input, much appreciated!
    Tom

    #23953

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Tom,

    Further to my post above, I added your fuel burn next to the recommended. The rpm’s you posted were not the same increments but this is pretty close. The numbers are quite askew……….

    #23949

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Hello Tom,

    Have you read through Tony’s recommendations on propping the dry QSM? You are grossly over-propped, especially considering your data was at ~50% fuel and water load. See attached sheet and link. I’d start by getting her properly propped and then see where those fuel burns, temps, etc are when the dust settles…

    Propping the Cummins Marine QSM 11 to Prevent Exhaust Issues

Viewing 9 replies - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)

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