Purchasing 97 Carver

[Brian Murray]

Hello all

I am in the process of purchasing a 97 Carver 500 with twin Cummins 8.3L 6cta engines. Hours are 974 currently engines and engine room is in great shape, clean and tidy.  Same owner for last 14 years. He states no major issues with the motors since he has owned the boat. <br />I have survey and sea trials set for this Tuesday but I cannot find a engine/mechanical surveyor anywhere close to Cincinnati. My regular surveyor is accredited and stated he would pull samples from all then engines and trannys. <br /><br />

anything that should pop out that I need to look for?  I plan to get pictures and serial numbers during the survey. <br /><br />

thanks

Topic

[Brian Murray]

Steve – this is the one listed by JBYS it does not have a floscan installed.  i will not be running it hard all the time but probably will open it up at least a few mins each hour of just cruising speed.

 

oil samples came back from caterpillar clean on both engines as well.

 

 

[Steve Lewis]

Brian,

if this is the boat that is listed by Jefferson Beach then I was looking at the pics of the dash of the boat.  I can not quite make them out but does this boat have floscan fuel flow instrumentation?  That is really the only way that you will be able to get the gph data that Tony wants to see at each rpm interval in the cruise range.  <br /><br />

If you close on the purchase, do you plan on operating at hull speed mostly or will you run on plane?   If on plane, then you will have some work to do.  <br /><br />

let us know.  

[Tony Athens]

Two things if you want good help:  

1.  Post your numbers is a chart format and then attach the chart
2.  What is the most important  part of any  Load chart is missing– GPH at those RPM’s 

Without GPH at specific RPM’s in the “cruise range”,  the chart or your numbers  are basically meaningless

[lpmcc]

Brian,

Any updates?  How are things going?

Thanks

Larry

[Brian Murray]

Still waiting on oil samples but here are the rpm’s  from the survey     

 

 

 

ENGINE PERFORMANCE<br />Recorded Engine Performance and Average Speed: <br />4.0 MPH @ idle (port: 760 RPM, starboard: 690 RPM).<br />7.2 MPH @ 1,000 RPM.<br />10.1 MPH @ 1,500 RPM.<br />14.1 MPH @ 2,000 RPM.<br />22.2 MPH @ 2,500 RPM.<br />24.5 MPH @ wide open thro3le (port: 2,630 RPM, starboard: 2,650 RPM).<br />The engines performed smoothly without exception through their operating range.

 

[Rob Schepis]

Good, sounds like you have your bases covered.  Wow, thought you would have had cooler temps out your way, that was warmer than I would have expected … crazy weather as of late with these highs.

[Brian Murray]

I specifically hired a survey that was 3 hours away to keep from the buddy buddy system. Startup was from 2 weeks of not being ran. Air temp 60’s water temp was 57. No heaters in the engine room. <br /><br />

surveyor has the tach and speed pics they are coming. <br /><br />

and I did verify with a photo tach-bought specifically for that

[Rob Schepis]

Sounds like the surveyor was thorough.  When the surveyor has a buddy-buddy history with a broker that’s not a good sign.

A few questions:

Was the startup cold from sitting overnight and with no heat on the engines from a block heater, pan heater or engine room heater?

What was the air and seawater temps when they were fired up?

Do you have a pic of the helm gauges, specifically the tachs?

Were the engines photo-tached to verify the dash tach readings?

[lpmcc]

Good news on getting 2675 on both engines.  I’m curious to what the normal cruising speed & RPM is?

These engines will smoke at start up, but go away pretty quickly.  Smoking can appear to be different port/strb due to sun, shade, viewing angle, etc.

Good luck with all.  Keep us posted.

[Brian Murray]

Survey Completed -very long day

Wow……I have purchased 9 homes in my life and this inspection was much more intense than I thought. I thought seller and broker was going to throw the inspector overboard for him being such detailed in everything. <br /><br />

over all so far it wasn’t a bad still waiting on exactly all the details from the report tomorrow. Everything right up with no issue, just a puff of white smoke like a fog lifting off the water from the port engine. I noticed this at startup and only when we docked for pull out. I will have exact temp readings in the report as the surveyor was only one in engine room while in motion. <br /><br />boat got up and ran/handle very well exact rpm’s and speed intervals captured every 500 rpm’s and I will post them exact tomorrow  On WoT it was about 2675 on both engines and right at 24mph  Haul out did reveal what I thought a bottom job was needed since it hadn’t been done in 3 years  

no smoke at all once you got above idle that we could tell  

swim platform will need some work due to soft place from poor installation of a dinghy davit 

 

i will post some more details as soon as possible 

 

[Brian Murray]

weight of boat is spec’d at 36k, dry weight

[Tony Athens]

Brian,

 

I think you need to understand a couple of things………And, I’ll bet your surveyor will have no clue on this.. 

 

1) These  are 20++ year old 6CTA’s with the  some very early “hang-on” component designs. That in itself is not bad, BUT you need to know that–Your seawater pumps are a perfect example ( we call the “upside down” pumps

2) Aftercoolers– By now they should have been on the bench not less that 6 time in pieces for a complete & proper servicing–Ask him what “Marine Age” is

3) The exhaust risers is  100% doomed to failure — probably already have unless this has been a fresh water boat for most of its life..

4) as pointed out, “your too clean”  is all about the spray can and masking tape

If this helps, the engine left the factory as world class, but that was 22+ year ago and you really know close to nothing about what has transpierced since other that someone has recently clean and re-painted much of  it..

A survey concentrating on oil samples is close to worthless in my book.

 

 

 

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Brian Murray

[lpmcc]

Let us know how the survey goes.  Very interested in your findings.

I’ll echo Steve’s comment about being too clean.  Obviously, someone has done some spray painting.  Might be great if the owner is that detailed.  Not so good if someone is trying to hide something.  You’ll know as soon as you throttle up on plane, see the max. RPM’s, and the speed.

Also, curious on the weight of the boat?

As noted here many times, great engines, if they are set up right.  

Larry

[Brian Murray]

very good input, i appreciate your feedback for sure……just off the phone with the broker for him to bring all service records as well.

[Steve Lewis]

I looked at the pictures that you posted and it does look very clean.  Almost too clean for that age.  The hoses look very new and I believe I see the wet elbows.  The Ohio River is “Fresh Water” as opposed to Salt Water so that works in your favor.  The small glimpse I got of the turbo air pipe in one of those pictures showed not much discoloration…….

lpmcc brings up a very good question.  How has this boat been operated in the past?  Can it make 2700++ RPM at wot? 

As to your question about BB, that is only half of the aftercooler equation.  If they have not been serviced then the air side of the cooler is probably in desperate need of some TLC.  The very first thing I did when we bought our boat with the 480CE’s was to have the entire cooling circuit serviced off engine.  You should seriously think of doing the same.  The Ohio River is dirty so I would wonder about the Heat Exchanger and its health too.  These are all things you could use in your negotiations.

Lots to ponder…….

[Brian Murray]

thanks –

i have been in the engine room just once while we looked at the interior, my wife actually laughed because i spent more time down there than i did looking at the inside of the cabin.

engine room along with the engines are pretty dang gone clean, all the maintenance has been done by the owner, no major break downs….after cooler service is also one of my concerns as well….just after doing some reading last week it should of been done at least twice with it sitting at 974 hrs……what is your all thoughts on Barnacle Busters for Cleaning?

 

i will be in the engine room tomorrow during the sea trial and did go get a digital tach tester to match with gauges on bridge as well.  i will post RPM after that

 

STeve/Tony – have it printed out and going to the garage to sit and ponder on this write up appreciate the info….

[lpmcc]

That’s a lot of boat for those engines.  How have they been run?  On plane or “wine & cheese” speed?  Pics of the turbo/aftercoolers?  Will the engines get over 2,600 RPM on plane?

[Tony Athens]

Read the article a few times–Concentrate on the 2 things that take out “young engines”,  and oil samples are not one of them….. In fact, in my book, they they are down 4-5 more spots on the list. 

 

1) Proper Aftercooler maintenance ( actually,  the lack of) since new  and that is not dependent on engine hours, but “Marine Age”. 

 

2) Proper Exhaust design Post really good pics of all–Don’t wait for the surveyor  to do it.

[Steve Lewis]

Greetings and welcome to the Forum from another Ohioan.  “O-H”  ” I-O”

Find the attached write up I did that consolidates a lot of the Pre-Purchase wisdom from the Forum.  Give it a read and then let us know if you have questions.

Post good pictures when you get them.

 

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