Oil analysis conumdrum

[Raymond Slingerland]

il analysis conundrum.
Looking at a 1997 Bayliner 3788 with the 6bta 250 hp cummins. Owner has had for 4 years, showed receipts for 20,000 dollars worth of care. Among those are “complete mechanical service engines and transmissions, all fluids and filters changed, new impellers, valve adjust, injector service and REBUILT PORT TURBO.

On survey and sea trial, engines started quickly, no smoke, 2700wot rpm, everything seemed normal. Oil analysis for the port engine was bad–220 hours on the oil. Not 50 as surveyor noted. Attached. 3 years ago when he bought it oil analysis good. Attached. Not sure which is the port engine. Further inspection his mechanic told him port oil cooler had slight leak. It is noted he had changed the starboard oil cooler earlier. Inspected valves, blower, etc for rust-found none. His pictures and words are on Boatdiesel, I’m fighterpilot for search purposes. New cooler, oil and fliter. 10 hours of fishing time, new test. Ok, attached.

Don’t know how to figure the engine condition and possible future risk if I buy the boat.

Topic

[Raymond Slingerland]

no pictures again

I give up. Gave up on the boat too. Thanks for your help.

[Raymond Slingerland]

Still no picture

They are less than 5mb, but maybe can only do one at a time

[Raymond Slingerland]

try again pictures

One more time, Taken at survey, for what ever they are worth. Thanks

[Rob Schepis]

Raymond Slingerland wrote:

These were taken at survey, probably not of use but all I have. One is the tx connection.

Pics did not upload ??

[Raymond Slingerland]

A few pictures

These were taken at survey, probably not of use but all I have. One is the tx connection.

[Raymond Slingerland]

oil samples

Appreciate the latest on the oil sample situation. I’m smarter for next time around. Another contributing factor was the lack of mechanical support in this area. I have worked with 3 mechanics over the last 12 years, but none of them want to take on an engine rebuild. I couldn’t even get them to talk to me about the situation. So to buy it was one thing, but to get it fixed if the engine analysis had meaning is another.

A couple of other members on my local forum noted the same problem, so to buy an engine with numbers as shown indicated risk, and more than I wanted to take under the existing mechanic situation. I had posted to the local forum for some mechanics to talk to and none of the locals responded.

A local truck company mechanic did respond, they have 700 trucks on the road and any truck with numbers that high would be off the road.

Can’t ignore it and no time to get a check again at say a 100 hours. So will pass.

[Philip]

Ray

It’s up to you to establish your comfort level.

Regarding oil samples, where you are going off the path is assuming the first oil sample is ‘normal’. There is ZERO way to know what ‘normal’ for THAT engine in THAT boat under THAT operating condition using THAT type/brand of oil even though the oil sample companies classify it as ‘normal’.

THE ONLY WAY TO ESTABLISH ‘NORMAL’ IS TO HAVE A TREND CONSISTING OF HIGH HUNDREDS TO THOUSANDS OF HOURS WORTH OF OIL SAMPLES USING THE SAME OIL, SAME PERSON TAKING OIL SAMPLES AND THE SAME SAMPLING COMPANY.

Believe it or not, every oil sample company will get a different result from exact same same oil sample! And what one guy calls normal the other calls abnormal. This is all sales hype as Cummins themselves doesn’t publish oil sample limits for a reason.

You have gotten good advice that startup, smoke, WOT, and running temps are 99% if not 100% best indicators of engine health.

Want some more help in understanding what you might be up against if you buy this boat? Post up some good high definition photos of your engines from all angles showing ALL and we can comment further.

[Raymond Slingerland]

oil samples

But what is random. The man bought the boat and had oil sample done. First oil sample serves as basis. Normal. He than after a few more hour changed the oil. Next oil sample taken on that oil which is now has some 220 hours on it. Very bad. Now there is really high metal content. How do I interpret that and what is my risk that the engine has some damage? I suspect there isn’t any way of really accessing engine condition short of taking it apart. I know cold start, smoke, running temp, wot rpm, etc are possible indicators, but I guess it is a risk I would have to accept if I buy the boat. Based on information derived from three forums, local Cummins rep. and a mechanic I conclude the engine condition and subsequent problems remains unknown and there is concern express by all, so risk to me is high. Probably best if I give up on that boat, and keep searching.

[Tony Athens]

Since doing this since 1985 when I bought my first Cummins marine engine , if I have learned anything it’s this……Put ZERO emphasis on random oil samples,.

Change your oil using a Brand name 15W-40 HD diesel oil, follow the “oil capacity chart” and methods on my web site, use install a premium Fleetguard LF 3894 oil filter and go fishing……….

If you are into oil samples, then establish a trend over the next 1500-5000 hours of engine operation and follow strict procedures as to the oil changes and never switch oil brands/types once to start “trending”.. ..

If you are into “super oils” that can lube everything in your engine room and easily double your oil change intervals with complete safety, then switch to Mobilgard 1 SHC ..

Tony

[Tony Athens]

Since doing this since 1985 when I bought my first Cummins marine engine , if I have learned anything it’s this……Put ZERO emphasis on random oil samples,.

Change your oil using a Brand name 15W-40 HD diesel oil, follow the “oil capacity chart” and methods on my web site, use/ install a premium Fleetguard LF 3894 oil filter and go fishing……….

If you are into oil samples, then establish a trend over the next 1500-5000 hours of engine operation and follow strict procedures as to the oil changes and never switch oil brands/types once to start “trending”.. ..

If you are into “super oils” that can lube everything in your engine room and easily double your oil change intervals with complete safety, then switch to Mobilgard 1 SHC ..

Tony

[Raymond Slingerland]

Update

My son-in-law got back from his Travels today and we talked about the sea trial. He indicated there was some slight smoke coming from the port engine underway. Also it was noted the port Turbo had been rebuilt previously. Could this situation be related?? That is, some previous situation that led to the high metal content etc,, and the port turbo problem. There had been some 220 plus hours of run time since the first oil analysis and the bad one.
Could the oil draw be at fault? What if it was drawn from down in the sludge?. If that would give a bad reading than wouldn’t it indicate metal in the sludge, hence a problem in the past? Would there be any sludge on a hot engine that had just come back from a sea trial? Trying to determine risk of ending up with a bad engine. Thanks

[Rob Schepis]

Raymond Slingerland wrote:

……On survey and sea trial, engines started quickly, no smoke, 2700wot rpm, everything seemed normal.

I think the above says it all, and tells more than a one-time oil sample… She’s propped good. Is the install clean and safe as to marine age and exhaust design ?

[Author]

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