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  • #155645

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    I recently purchased a new boat to me. Its a 31′ Bertram FBC. It has 2003 Yanmars 6LYA-STP 365 H.P. Each engine has right at 700 hrs on them. The gears are zf models 220A, ratio is 1.75:1 and she is propped at blade 22 x 24 x 1.75. I was told when lifted at the yard, that she weighs 18k pounds. It also refit by Cabrera Yachts in 2003. They tunneled the hull as well. This boat reminds me of Shooter that Seaboard refit.

    The old owner told me that she takes a while to spin up and get on plane. I was told that its a Cabrera thing to build boats for speed. My first trip after having her delivered was as such. I left the marina, and opened her up to WOT to see what she has. Man, she is slow taking off. I didn’t record an accurate time or rpm, but I would say from 1200 to 1800 rpm took about 30 seconds. At about 1800 rpm, I pulled back on the throttles to about half throttle, then slowly opened the throttle as rpm increased. I would say it took me a good 2 1/2 to 3 minutes to get her to wide open. She does fly at WOT, but she’s a slug getting to WOT.

    So, there’s a little puff of black smoke, more so out of the port engine than the starboard, but nothing like a diesel truck that someone turned the pump up on, and mosquito fogging everyone. I will try to attach a video if its not to large a file.

    All things being fair and equal, There’s no boost or egt gauge. The exhaust out of the turbos are not done right. I don’t know when or if the aftercoolers were serviced, I do not see that in the service records. I am guessing she has 3-4 coats of bottom paint. She is a heavy fat girl, that I’d like to lighten up a bit. I say that because she hits 3,000 rpm at WOT. These are 3300 rpm engines.

    I am guessing that she is over propped, does anyone have any suggestions on a good base size prop to start with, or should I be focusing more on engine issues and maintenance first?

Viewing 20 replies - 1 through 20 (of 30 total)
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  • #161632

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    Any thoughts or suggestions?

    #161322

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    prop scans

    Tony, Here are the results of the prop scans Thanks Ā 

     

    The prop shop suggests a 22″x20pĀ 

    #157310

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    Mufflers

    Reading posts in the B31 forums, I seen mention of using surge tubes only, and no mufflers.Ā Ā 

     

    any thoughts on layout beyond the mixer?Ā  I am running 6″ exhaust hose past the mixer.Ā  At the moment, the boats has 5″ centek mufflers in and outs with surge tubes.Ā  I am not apposed to just straight 6″ hose, and no mufflers.Ā  The 6″ mufflers will not fit under the floor.

    #157162

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    I appreciate the info on that Willyok.Ā  I emailed the guys here to get an answer, but I never got a reply.Ā  I figure they are busy as can be, and my email slipped through the cracks.Ā  The day I read your email, I had already ended up drilling and tapping the original plug that was in the manifold.Ā  If anyone ever needs to know, the original plugs are brass.Ā  I do intend to use the stainless ones once I acquire the tap to clean the threads in the manifold.

     

    I do have some EGT data to report that is concerning.Ā  Maybe I am missing a key to the puzzle for it to not be so concerning,

     

    I ran the boat, same as before, full tank of fuel, and two adults, so almost no load.Ā  After I ran it no load, I was going to add 2500-3000 lbs of ballast to get some data on that.Ā  Obviously with these EGT temps, I did not load the boat at all.Ā  I decided I would report these findings and get some input before I go any further

     

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā Port EngineĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Starboard Engine

    RPM 1000Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  0 psiĀ  Ā  Ā 400 degĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 0Ā  psiĀ  Ā  300 deg.Ā Ā 

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 1500Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  0 psiĀ  Ā  Ā  850 degĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  0Ā  psiĀ  Ā  Ā 500 deg

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 2000Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 5 psiĀ  Ā  Ā 1350 degĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 2Ā  Ā psiĀ  Ā  Ā 750 deg

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 2500Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 10 psiĀ  Ā  Ā 1500 degĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 7Ā  Ā  psiĀ  Ā  Ā 1200 deg

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 3000Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 17Ā  psiĀ  Ā  Ā < 1500 degĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  12Ā  Ā psiĀ  Ā  Ā 1350 deg

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 3300Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 22 psiĀ  Ā  Ā <1500 degĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 18Ā  psiĀ  Ā  Ā  1450 deg

     

    Recordings are pre-turbo.

     

    I purchased the exhaust flanges from here to build a new exhaust system.Ā  I had them tapped for probes.Ā  I intend to copy Shooters exhaust system.

     

    Any engine issues I should consider looking into for the super high temperatures, or is this just a matter of overworking the engines from propping?

    Thanks!

    #157103

    willyok
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Aloha Lady
    Engines: Yanmar 6LY-UTE
    Location: San Diego
    Country: USA

    EGT Plug size

    I installed the same pre tapped plug purchased here on my 6LYs. I cant find the email from SBMAR telling me the size but I looked in my orders from MacMaster Carr and the tap I purchased was 3/8 BSPP (<b>British Standard Parallel Pipe).</b>

    The tap worked great and the plugs are still sealed well. Unfortunately when I replaced my turbos from damage caused by a poorly designed exhaust, the new turbos had a Cast flange that prevented my from reinstalling the pyrometer probes. So I will have to either clearance the casting later or install an EGT bung in exhaust after the turbo.Ā 

    #156787

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    PHOTO TACH

    Tony,

    I photo tached when I started this diagnostic.Ā 

     

    “Real live tach data Both tachometer gauges show to read about 100 rpm faster than a photo tach. These engines are supposed to high idle at 3300 rpm according to the data tag, but they actually high idle at 3800 rpm. Should I back the high idle adjustment to only allow these engines to tack at 3300?”….. This is at the dock in neutral.

     

    WOT taching reading by gauges, at the moment, not loaded is 3400 rpm.Ā  So once I get it loaded with people and gear, that will come down.Ā  The propellers are in poor shape too.

    My original thoughts were that I am over propped at 22×24, and to have the props cut down to 21 inch, and change the pitch to 22 inch.Ā 

    I’ll weight the boat out, and get some recordings,Ā  then get the props sent in.Ā 

    #156758

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Yanmar 6LYA STP 350/370

    I wouldĀ  confirmĀ  strobe tach accuracy at 3000-3200Ā  RPM in neutral at the dock as you next step.. Ā  Your “no load” should be very close to 3700 in neutral with this engine……………..In gear,Ā  fully loaded needs to be above 3400 but closer to 3500 is better

    #156730

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    PRESSURE TEST

    I had the opportunity to pressure test the aftercooler over the weekend, and run the boat.Ā  She ran wayyyy better.Ā  I pulled and cleaned the port side cooler only, as this was the biggest slug of the two engines.Ā  These are the recordings of Boost pressures and rpms.Ā  I still cannot figure out the thread pitch and diameter of the plug on the manifold extension to ad my egt probe.Ā  If anyone has that information, it would be much appreciated.Ā  My thread pitch gauges does not have this particular size either.Ā  I purchased the egt bushing from Seaboard.Ā  As soon as I get those in, I will get those recordings.Ā  This is with two skinny guys on board, and a full tank of fuel only.Ā  About 340 pounds of bodies, and 1400 pounds of fuel.Ā  The boat is supposed to weigh about 18k pounds according to the lift scales.

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Port EngineĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā Starboard Engine

    RPM 1000Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  0 psiĀ  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  0Ā  psi

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 1500Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  0Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  0

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 2000Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 5Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 2

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 2500Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 10Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 7

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 3000Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 17Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  12

    Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 3300Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  22Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 18

     

    Once I get some egt recordings, I will get the boat out of the water, props off, and scanned.

     

    #156637

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA
    #156636

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    That’s right

    31′ BERTRAM

    #156628

    Pequod
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Pequod
    Location: Cape Cod
    Country: USA

    Macdougals Bertram

    It had V-8 Yanmars installed.

    #156625

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Oops, yes, I forgot we were working with a 6LY here, I had 6BTA on my mind.Ā  Much tighter more compact configurations on the Yanmars.

    #156597

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    The dang bottom hose of that thing goes into an oil cooler below the aftercooler, and the hose is only like 3″ long.Ā  If that oil cooler drops easy, I’ll pressure test it installed.Ā  If not, I will just remove it, and bench it, which is what I was going to once I get the boat out of the water anyway.Ā  I’m just trying to collect any data that I can, and get a plan of attack together.Ā  I don’t want to spend a year getting the boat up to snuff, just to splash it, and find more issues.

     

    Thanks again!

    #156590

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Could be condensation.Ā  Based on the housing surface pitting I would pressure test the assembly and you can do it in place.Ā  Just 2 hoses and 1 zinc to pull.

    Aftercooler Condensation – A different way to look at air

    #156572

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    Iā€™d say thereā€™s some form of water intrusion. Ā I pulled the heating element, and bore scoped it. Ā Unless humid air causes condensation.

    #156560

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    Hey Rob,Ā 

    Thanks for the insight, I see what you are talking about there.Ā  I cleaned the core and put it back together yesterday, but I will have a second look at that spot.

    I did not notice any water intrusion, I assume that I would be looking for some scaling, or “greening” of the coper on the air side of the core.

    The core and the housing are indexed, I lined both of the marks back up when I put it backĀ  together.

    Thank ya sir!

    #156550

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    This corrosion on the housing looks problematic based on it’s location on the o-ring sealing surface.Ā  This will need careful inspection and cleaning/prep and then an assembled pressure test after servicing.

    Did you happen to index the core before pulling it out?Ā  Is there any signs of salt water intrusion on the air side of the core from this area?

     

    #156530

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    I pulled an aftercooler down, and got some pictures of the a turbo on the intake side.

     

    I dont see this kind of stuff every day, but I expected worse out of that aftercooler.

     

    Ā I cannot get the probe installed for the EGT. Ā Iā€™m having issues with the plug fitting right in the exhaust manifold. I think the threads are different. Ā Iā€™m just going to use the original plugs, and drill and tap them out.

    #156521

    Shannon Ritzert
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Hot Mess
    Engines: 4bt
    Location: Port Aransas
    Country: United States

    Oh man, I love that boat, yā€™all did an amazing job on it! Ā Definitely some inspiration! Ā <br /><br />

    Iā€™m off this morning to try and knock some stuff out. Ā Iā€™ll post some photos of my findings if I can complete anything!

     

    thank ya sir!

    #156515

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Very Custom Bertram 31

    My fault–I just made it PUBLIC–I’m learning too.

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