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  • #23964

    Mark Gacka
    Participant
    Vessel Name: The Beach House
    Engines: Cummins QSC 8.3 L
    Location: Florida
    Country: USA

    I have a Cummins QSC 8.3 L engine which was purchased with a new boat in May 2016. All Cummins recommended maintenance was performed by an authorized Cummins dealer in April 2017 with 214 Hours on the engine. Yesterday I took the boat out and as soon as put power to the engine it was sluggish and billowing black smoke from the exhaust. The engine has 281 hours on it currently. I found a 12 inch crack in the aftercooler housing causing a significant boost leak. There was no evidence of fluid leakage or contamination.

    I am assuming that this particular cast aluminum housing was bad or out of specification. Is there something else that can cause the aftercooler housing to crack? I never had any alarms, or had any engine temperatures/pressures been abnormal. I also run the boat 100 to 200 RPM below Cruise or

Viewing 13 replies - 21 through 33 (of 33 total)
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  • #24118

    Mark Gacka
    Participant
    Vessel Name: The Beach House
    Engines: Cummins QSC 8.3 L
    Location: Florida
    Country: USA

    Everybody may be right and I should have done the work myself and greased the whole thing. However, look at it from my stand point. I bought the boat new with a Cummins QSC 8.3 L 600 hp engine. The standard warranty on the engine is 2 years or 500 hrs, which ever occurs first. You also have to use Cummins parts and make no modifications when making a replacement and do the preventative maintenance on before the Cummins schedule dates. If you do not adhere to the above, the warranty is void.

    Cummins has been excellent to date, with any warranty claims. When they tell me that they are supplying a complete new after cooler, under warranty and if I disassemble it and apply grease to it, I will void the additional warranty (12 months from today) on the new after cooler and void the remaining warranty on the engine (another 7 months) I have no choice but do what they say. I will do the next preventative maintenance cycle on the engine, (oil, filters, air sep, impellers, etc) around the end of March 2018. At that time I will have only 1.5 months left on the original engine warranty. I will do the after cooler at that time and forget about the additional 6 months of warranty I will loose on the after cooler. If I see anything odd with the housing or core at that time, I can hold Cummins responsible.

    If it was an older boat and the manufactures engine warranty did not apply, I would have had the new after cooler taken apart and reassembled with the grease.

    #24116

    Chris Dahl
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Becky
    Engines: QSB6.7 480
    Location: Anacortes, WA
    Country: United States

    That drain plug might tell the story, looks pretty chalked up, if the inside of the air side looks like that drain plug it might be safe to say prevention would have consisted of greasing that whole thing up early on in life.

    My 2013 6.7 aftercooler weeped ever so slightly from an end cap at hour number one. The Cummins tech came out on warranty and had a whole new O ring kit with him, the kit had a little pouch of white milk looking lube he planned to use. We pulled it off the engine and tore it down in my garage with less than 40 hours on it. It had the beginnings of corrosion already, he was amazed. I broke out the green grease and applied liberally and he gladly tossed away his little pouch of white lube. Pulled apart again at 650 hours and it was still greased up well and not a single sign of corrosion.

    281 hours is certainly not too few to have had a corrosion failure. If you run that new AC without a thorough grease job you will be asking for a possible repeat.

    #24114

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Tony:

    The new after cooler was installed on my boat today.

    More important thing as of now: Did the cooler that was installed in the boat today get taken apart and serviced per our protocol?

    I did not see any signs of grease on your old cooler…

    Cummins Marine Aftercooler Maintenance

    #24106

    Mark Gacka
    Participant
    Vessel Name: The Beach House
    Engines: Cummins QSC 8.3 L
    Location: Florida
    Country: USA

    Tony:

    The new after cooler was installed on my boat today. Unfortunately I do not have many pictures of the unit that failed. The brass end caps off the failed unit showed some minor corrosion and the zincs were in good shape. There was some evidence of a white substance around mating surfaces and the taste test indicated that it was something other than salt.

    The O Rings were the black with a green stripe and were in very good shape. I believe these O Rings are the latest version Cummins recommends.

    The end caps of the cores were fairly clean as you can see from the pictures. You can also see some minor corrosion and again there was some white residue and based on the taste test it was not salt. We could not get the core to come out even with a block of wood and hammer. I asked for the core to be taken out at the shop and pressure tested and informed the shop I would pay for the work.

    After the tech called that one in, the response was that the after cooler, as is, would have to be shipped backed to Cummins for analysis to get the warranty credit. This sounds like one big run around to me and an excuse for me not to see the core.

    When we removed the drain valve we could see that corrosion had completely plugged the valve and caused it to fail. There was not salt in the valve only corroded metal.

    From what little I could see of the core through the air inlet and outlet, it looked clean and did not appear to have any salt water corrosion. I could see copper, but it was difficult to get a good visual on much of the core through the air inlet our outlet.

    Based on other after coolers that I have seen,had I not know the casting had failed, this one looked like it was in good shape and was not in need of immediate service. However, of major concern was that based on the appearance of the end caps and the core itself, I would have expected that the core would have easily come out of the outer aluminum casting. It would not come out. This may have been because of severe corossion or because the casting was cracked and no longer shaped properly, it was impossible to tell.

    A little more history on the engine and boat:

    Manufacturing of the Engine: August 11, 2015
    Completion Date of Boat Manufacturing and shipped to Dealer in Florida: January 2016
    Date I purchased the boat New from the Dealer: May 16, 2016 (Hours on the Engine 7.3)
    Failure of After Cooler Housing: October 12, 2017 (Hours on the Engine 281)
    There are no records of any modification made to the engine or after cooler made by Cummins or an Authorized dealer. In other words the after cooler that failed was on the engine since it was manufactured and no one worked on is since that time. ( I know that since May 16th, 2016 that nothing was done to the after cooler other than replacing zincs every six months.)

    Based on what I saw I am completely at a loss of why this failure occurred. I doubt I will ever know.

    I am having a oil analysis done to make sure that there the oil does not have a high sodium or iron content. In addition we did a blow by test and everything was fine.

    I do not know how I could have prevented this failure and probably will never know.

    Mark Gacka

    #24066

    Mark Gacka
    Participant
    Vessel Name: The Beach House
    Engines: Cummins QSC 8.3 L
    Location: Florida
    Country: USA

    Bill:

    Freezing was one of the first things I thought of when I saw the failure. The boat was manufactured in Maine and then shipped to the dealer in Florida. I know that all the boat water systems, heads, A/C’s, hot water tanks, ect. were winterized properly. I was present when the dealer was commissioning the boat and flushing the the systems. The manufacture used the antifreeze very liberally.

    When I first saw the boat, it was in the water in Florida and the engine had been run. However, these guys build a lot of boats and ship them around the world, so it I highly doubtful they would have forgotten to winterize the engine. Also I have owned the boat for 16 months and there has been no other signs on the engine, or cooling systems indicating any freeze damage. In addition, this is the after cooler and the core carries the raw water (salt water) and the housing should only have air in it an possibly some minor condensation.

    Hopefully I will know the cause tomorrow. I don’t want to pull the unit off the engine until the replacement is here and the tech is with me. I don’t want Cummins claiming I did something to void the warranty.

    It looks like metal fatigue to me probably caused by a bad casting.

    Mark Gacka

    #24054

    Bill Desmarais
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Extremist
    Engines: Cummins 6BTA 370
    Location: Portsmouth, NH
    Country: United States

    Ten years on boatdiesel forum as a Cummins enthusiast and now on this forum and I’ve never seen a cracked Cummins after cooler housing happen “out-of-the-blue”.

    The cause is always water freezing inside the housing or after a long life of internal corrosion.

    Hopefully a fluke event ?

    Bill D

    #24045

    Mark Gacka
    Participant
    Vessel Name: The Beach House
    Engines: Cummins QSC 8.3 L
    Location: Florida
    Country: USA

    Tony:

    I will do everything possible.

    If they will let me keep the failed unit, I am willing to ship it out to you at my cost so you can look at it. They probably will not let me keep the failed after cooler, but I can hope.

    Answering Corey: The lower support bracket is not cracked, but the paint is coming off and I don’t know why. When I am with the Tech tomorrow I am going to check how much vibration the engine has under load. At idle everything is normal, but I have not been in the engine room while the boat is at cruise and the engine is under load.

    Mark Gacka

    #24044

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    QSC aftercooler issues

    Mark,

    If you really want the answer to your concerns, IMO there is only one way.. I need to really “see” the aftercooler taken apart on the bench, un-cleaned “as-is” for thorough inspection….. Cummins, on a whole, has had their head in the sand for over 25 years on this exact subject or issue. I truly doubt you will get the answer from a school trained certified tech………………………… Just ask him how many years he has been taking apart QSC aftercoolers and how many ones were involved during that time. Then ask him if he knows about the 2 distinct versions of them that use differ assembly parts and o-rings, and then explain the differences… ………………………. This web site has all the pics you need to see to 100% quality that statement, but also I will say, your failure is odd on this particular engine “Marine Age Wise”……………………. So IMO, some very experienced eyes need to be involved here..

    Tony

    #24007

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    I agree that the damage to the cooler does not necessarily indicate “Marine Age” as the culprit although if the cooler has never been serviced since new… it surely doesn’t help things…

    It’s difficult to tell in the image but is the lower supporting bracket also cracked as well?

    Let’s get everything apart and take some clear pictures so we can get to the bottom of the ROOT CAUSE

    #23991

    Mark Gacka
    Participant
    Vessel Name: The Beach House
    Engines: Cummins QSC 8.3 L
    Location: Florida
    Country: USA

    Cummins QSC 8.3 After Cooler Failure

    The Cummins authorized service dealer has ordered a completely new after cooler and it will be delivered on Wednesday. The work will be done Thursday by the Cummins rep. under warranty. Pictures will be taken.

    I agree with the comments about Marine Age and I am firm believer in the concept. I have boated for 40 years and I am fanatical about preventative maintenance. I have always removed every core on my boat every 22 months or 500 hours of use which ever came first. This is the first time in 40 years I ever had a failure on anything in the cooling system, including impellers. Preventative maintenance works!

    The boat’s construction was completed in January, 2016 and immediately shipped to a dealer in Florida. The dealer kept it in the water at his facility until May 16, 2016 when I took title to the boat. The after cooler was never serviced. The boat has been in Salt since January 2016 and the failure happened on October 14, 2017. This would mean the marine life of the unit was 21.5 months. If the failure was due to corrosion and salt water intrusion/bypass, then I have a big problem and an ongoing maintenance nightmare. However, from the outside it looks like the failure was caused by metal fatigue and not corrosion. Hopefully we will know more on Thursday and I will keep you posted.

    I want to find the true cause of the failure, because I want to prevent it happening in the future.

    #23975

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Have you taken apart the aftercooler yet? When you do, take A LOT of pictures without cleaning anything so we can see the internal condition of the core, etc.

    Then we can begin to tell the story and get to the ROOT CAUSE.

    #23972

    Philip
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 2007 35ā€™ Cabo ā€˜FUGAā€™
    Engines: Cummins QSC8.3-540ā€™s
    Location: Long Beach, CA

    Some of this stuff is extreme but you may find some answers by studying these pictures….

    Aftercooler Disasters

    #23971

    Philip
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 2007 35ā€™ Cabo ā€˜FUGAā€™
    Engines: Cummins QSC8.3-540ā€™s
    Location: Long Beach, CA

    Marine age and aftercooler service

    Lots of info on this website and others about aftercooler maintenance. Yes we all know what Cummins says, but that’s wholefully inadequate especially when it comes to Cummins aftercooler servicing.

    When if ever was the aftercooler service, by whom, and exactly how? That will tell the story.

    Aftercooler thoughts, opinions, and answers to some queriesā€¦

    Cummins Marine Aftercooler Maintenance

    As for hours, forget about them when it comes to aftercooler (and many other service intervals), it’s about marine age. I assume your operating in saltwater?

    ā€œMarine Ageā€ the REAL age of a Marine Diesel Engine

Viewing 13 replies - 21 through 33 (of 33 total)

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