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  • #13149

    chipprather
    Participant

    Let me begin by saying I am an aging sailboat guy preparing to “transition” to power who acknowledges being at the bottom of the heap with regard to knowing much about powerboats or bigger diesel engines. Thus I’ve emailed Tony, joined both this forum and boatdiesel.com to begin filling the knowledge deficit. With that introduction, here is why I’m posting on this forum. Presently I am considering buying a 1999 boat with twin Cumins 450 HP Diamond series engines. One engine reportedly lost an oil line and was fried. This engine, which has less than 20 hours on it, was rebuilt in the boat. I’m told the crankshaft was not replaced or turned (assuming that’s even done on these engines) and the turbo was not replaced. I’ve not yet made an offer on the boat so the rebuild and/or maintenance records are not available to me. Engine #2 has just short of 4000 hours. Going into this, my assumption is that engine 2 will need to be rebuild. My questions to the forum are:
    1. What sort of evaluation should I do on these engines?
    2. Is an “in boat engine rebuild” typical (my gut says it’s a short-cut that may haunt me in the future)
    3. Given my assumption that engine 2 needs to be rebuilt, is there any advantage by replacing the engine with a rebuilt engine over rebuilding the existing engine?
    4. Now, as I consider my budget, to the most important question as well as the most difficult to answer given the lack of information available; any thought on a high-side ballpark cost estimate to rebuild the existing 450?
    5. Same question but related to buying a reconditioned engine?
    I am including a few engine photos. The starboard engine was rebuilt, port is original. Thank you for your insights!

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  • #13524

    chipprather
    Participant

    Thank

    Thank you Tony. It’ll be awhile before we do this deal (selling another boat first). If we reach agreement on price, I’ll video the start up and send to you. Probably call you at that time as well.

    #13180

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Chip,

    Lotā€™s going on here and I canā€™t give you 100%, only something to consider…

    1)Ā Ā  Ā Pics tell me the engine have some fresh paint ā€“I never did like that as you really cannot see certain things that matter to a very trained eye. With that said, the best thing you can do as to an pre- ā€œevaluationā€ is to be on the boat on a cold/cool day andĀ  do an engine anĀ  start ā€“up,Ā  ā€œcold ironā€ condition and know 100% the engines were not stated in the previous 2-3 days.. If they were ( like for a minute or so a few hours earlier, then all bets are offā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦..That engine starts on 3 thingsā€”Good batteries /connections so the engine cranks at 150 RPM or better, fuel at the injection pump, and Heat ( compression) and that one thing alone will tell you more about cylinder /valve conditionĀ  that any survey will. If you go the extra mile and video the start up with sond, that would me major for me to evaluate.

    2)Ā Ā  Without really know what ā€œfriedā€ means, I canā€™t really tell you anything about the crank, Ā etc. But 99+% of the time, fried is related to an overheatĀ  and not loss of oil. Maybe the oil line to the turbo went and it really just fried the turbo? Never seenĀ  a crankĀ  damaged in these situations ..

    3)Ā Ā  Rebuild in the boatā€”Make no different n this engine as long as it was done rightā€”Mid stop wet linered engine with simple to replace pistons, liners, bearings, etc.ā€”It all comes down to the right mechanic, access,Ā  and using genuine Cummins parts

    4)Ā Ā  4000 hrs——— To mean, Ā that means somethingĀ  good———Someone was taking care of things and that the engines were not being run that hard.. Your rebuild on the other engine could have been justĀ  an ā€œunlucky occurrenceā€ with the wrong person driving the boat that was not aware of something going on?Ā  Donā€™t know, but I have plenty of these engines that have been run easy that have well over 20000 hours and they still run great. But , is this boat going to run a trawler type speeds, or on plane about 15-18 Knotsā€”That make a a big difference for both engine s from the day you owe it forward————What are your plans that way ??.

    5)Ā Ā  Buying genuine Cummins factor new non-exchange RECONs will set you back aboutĀ  $30K per.. You can sell your good runningĀ  enginesĀ  forĀ  $6-10K apiece on the open market,, But, donā€™t forget the labor for the R&R.

    6)Ā Ā  Personally, I would not rebuild unless you are you own ā€œmotivated & experiencedā€Ā  self-taught mechanic,Ā  and you want the exercise & had the time.. Ā $5-10 K per in parts depending on how deep you want to go..

    Things that you need to understand on in these linksā€”All boats and engines in this class apply hereā€”Cat, Volvo, JD, etc.. ..

    ā€¢ Cummins Marine Aftercooler Maintenance
    ā€¢ ā€œMarine Ageā€ the REAL age of a Marine Diesel Engine
    ā€¢ Continuous Duty ā€“ A Different Perspective
    ā€¢ Engine Life vs. Engine Loading
    ā€¢ Low Speed Running & ā€œBreak-Inā€ of Marine Diesels
    ā€¢ Choosing the Right Diesel
    ā€¢ The Cummins 6CTA 8.3 Marine Engine Story
    ā€¢ Engine Life
    ā€¢ Fuel and Horsepower

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