Cummins Marine Diesel Repower Specialists Forums Cummins Marine Engines 1999 Sea Ray 450 Express Bridge w/6CTA 430HP Diamonds

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  • #113528

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Hi All,

    After two failed purchase attempts this winter due to inspection issues, I am on attempt #3.

    I have stumbled on a well-kept boat that had a starboard engine failure (severe overheat) and subsequently replaced about 75ish running hours ago (April 2019). At the same time, the starboard engine was replaced the owner had the mechanic go through the top end of the port engine and did a bunch of maintenance on all of the components to include all of the coolers (I have the work orders in hand and annual maintenance for 2020). I am having a hard time getting an engine surveyor, but I have a deep mechanical background (dad’s RV business and then US Air Force) and I decided that on engines without an ECM there isn’t much to be done but oil samples, a thorough once over for leaks, and using my borescope to take a look at as much as I can during the survey (will bring a few tools and see if I can peak at compressor and impeller on the turbo and at the inlet of the aftercooler). I have a good hull surveyor who will pull the oils samples, so I am going to go Han Solo on the engines, transmissions, and generator.

    As a former aircraft and vehicle/RV mechanic, what am I going to miss that a marine mechanic would know to look for? My intuition tells me the exhaust is my biggest blind spot, but are there other things I need to look at on the 6CTAs?

    Thx in advance and hopefully I get to add a boat to my profile soon!

    Kevin

Viewing 20 replies - 1 through 20 (of 29 total)
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  • #116233

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Same one I have, it works great!

    Thx!

    #116232

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Those images were captured with this cheapo unit – have had it for years and it works great for stuff like this or seeing in hard to reach places…

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYTHWK4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #116228

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    You can scope the zinc ports of the aftercooler and heat exchanger. Here’s some example shots.
    The gear cooler just pull the hoses and look at the tube bundles.
    If all was done one year ago maybe it is just a failing hose that could be fatigued from prior high pressure exposure due to past blockages.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #116204

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for the reply.

    These coolers were all removed and cleaned off engine in April 2020 (based on prrevious owners invoices). The port engine (bulging) is running cooler than the starboard engine buy roughly 5 degrees.

    I am happy to troubleshoot, but curious on your technique. Besides using an IR temp gun to compare various locations on both engines and see if I can find a a discrepancy would there be a better way to identify a sea water blockage?

    Thx in advance!

    Kevin

    #116202

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Glad she’s home. Bulging seawater hoses at that location are indicative of seawater circuit blockages, starting at the aftercooler. Do your due diligence…..

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #116199

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Closing out the process

    Hi All,

    Got the boat home late yesterday after a trip from Punta Gorda, FL to Destin, FL. It was an experience, bot engines did fine. One small leak at the reverso which was an easy under way fix.

    Just ordered new fuel cooler hoses for the port as they were bulging a bit. The port engine is new and hoses look good.

    Not much in the engine front, but certainly got some sludge sucked up out of the port tank, so need to clean the racors.

    Thanks for all the help and advice that made our trip successful!

    #114802

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Great info, Steve!

    Thx, wasn’t even thinking about a spare pump. Will add it to the list!

    #114799

    Steve Lewis
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Just Us
    Engines: Cummins 480CE
    Location: Marblehead, OH
    Country: USA

    some thoughts on spares from another SR owner

    Kevin,

    I would have a spares stash of ALL filters, Belt(s) and impellers. Also fresh oil if you have the space. I also learned last year it is a good idea to have 1 or more spares of the Rule 2000 bilge pump and the appropriate electrical and mechanical tools to swap that out. Your engine room will most likely have 3 like ours does(and did). Those plastic mounts can get brittle over time. Found that out the hard way. Those were hard to find in Northern Michigan last summer. Bought one from a random couple at a marina in Tawas City and added an assorted 6-pack for good will. Oh Yeah…….. Extra cash and beer! Always nice to have some extra currency to “grease the skids” as it were…….

    The way I have always done the impellers is change them every season. The impellers that come out are usually in good condition so those become the spares and then new ones go in. I rotate the stock at each change. The current spares gets tossed, the current ones come out and are now the spares and new ones go in. The guy we bought the 460 from did it this way as well.

    Keep a spares bin of as much stuff as you can as parts are hard to come by in a pinch. It is always better to have the part and just need some helping hands. Helping hands seem to be relatively easy to find.

    Towboat unlimited gold insurance………. IMO Worth every penny each year.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #114764

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Thx Rob!

    Appreciate the inputs and coaching!

    Thoughts on bringing a spare impeller?

    #114727

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    LF is lube oil filter
    FF is fuel filter
    FS is also fuel filter (fuel strainer)

    See pic – your FF is boxed in blue, LF in green

    Do not prefill the spin-ons.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #114719

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Rob,

    Thx!

    Great thought on the “slosh” factor. I had brought my borescope on the survey, but neglected to peak in yhe tanks to see if there was a large amount of sediment. I may try again before I top-up on fuel.

    Have done Racors before and plan on bringing a container with diesel refill the Racors after a change if necessary. Assume you don’t reccomend filling spin-on filters as that would allow particulates into the pump?

    Will bring my ear muffs, for sure. Didn’t on the survey and just had to tough it out to check things out Ɨhile everything was up and running.

    Pics of my filters – 4x Racors with 2x spin-ons, or are there 4x spin-ons?

    #114710

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    That is good Kevin that the boat is seeing regular use. That should help limit the chance of surprises coming up. One thing about fuel though is that what is getting picked up in the tanks can change if the sea state gets heavy. Not sure if you’ve done a Racor filter change or not. You may wish to do a swap before the trip to get familiar and no you are starting cleaning. Bring plenty of pig mat and a pair of safety ear muffs so you can check things along the way.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #114692

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Thx!

    Good advice. The fuel is new. Watched him fill up from near empty on the sea trial, and he has put over a hundred hours on the boat since last annual service on 9/2020. Roughly 2000 gallons since last Sep.

    #114679

    lpmcc
    Participant

    Fuel filters….on engine and Racors. Do you know how old the fuel in the boat is? If not sure, bring many…..and bring 2 of everything.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #114576

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Bought the boat!

    Hi All,

    Update to the update.

    We bought the boat and it is undergoing work for as part of our negotiations with the seller. Based on the previous update, I bought new oil pressure senders from SBMAR after digging on the forum and reading about others with odd oil pressure readings. The manual guages on the engines were nearly antique, and the helm guages were new, but the didn’t change the senders. Also, pulled the spec sheet for oil pressures and part of the deal is the readings need to be within specs.

    So, as we prepare for a 3 day sail home, any tips/tricks and what spare parts I should bring???

    Thinking a drive belt, an impeller, fluids, any thing else???

    Thx in advance!

    Kevin

    #113872

    Kevin
    Participant
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: Boggy Bayou
    Country: United States

    Hi All,

    Did the survey yesterday and it went well. The exhausts, as mentioned previously in this thread, are something that needs to be addressed. They will be the first thing I take apart and inspect when I get the boat home.

    On the seat rial, we had the white smoke until warm, small puff of black on acceleration and then they ran clean for the rest of the 3+ hours on the water. Put a stethoscope on and listened to valve training, injectors, fuel pump, gear train, and crankcase on both engines when cold and heard nothing out of the ordinary. Put a stethoscope all over both engines at WOT and all sounded good. Did the IR temp gun check and both engines at idle, cruise, and WOT and had expansion tanks at 170 and 175 respectively. All other IR temp locations were within 5 degrees of each other on both engines.

    There was one anomaly that seems out of place and hoping that I could get your help with it. I searched around on the forum and these two 6CTAs seem to be different than most with regard to their oil pressure.

    Starboard engine has roughly 200 hours and makes 80 PSI at idle through WOT. I verified this on the helm gauge and the manual gauge in the engine space.

    Port engine has roughly 1275 hours and makes 25 PSI at idle though WOT. Again, verified at helm and manual gauge.

    Most of the stuff I found on the forum seems like most people’s engines act like I would expect with differing pressure at different throttle setting, especially after the engine is warm.

    Thoughts?

    Thx in advance for the help!

    #113839

    lpmcc
    Participant

    It slopes down hill, it’s the pic. I pull the exhausts every 2 years to inspect. No water coming backwards. Turbos are nice and dry.

    #113833

    Francis Valerio
    Participant
    Vessel Name: overslept
    Engines: Twin 4BT CPL741
    Location: Massapequa Park, New York Long Island
    Country: USA

    The “shower head” injecting the water looks to be on a horizontal plane. Is it the pic or is it actually on a downward slope?
    As long as seawater can NOT work its way back and puddle up against the turbo it is prob OK.

    #113594

    lpmcc
    Participant

    Here’s my Exhaust

    Here’s the pic

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #113587

    lpmcc
    Participant

    Here’s my Exhaust

    Here’s a pic of my Strb exhaust elbow. You will see it is dry until the spillover point, then the seawater is injected on the downhill side.

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