[Dalton]

Rob

I bought the boat 2 years ago but was active for a bit here and the other diesel forum. I believe you helped me with a couple electrical things too!

During my survey 2 years ago there were samples done and it failed but for another reason, not aluminum. The theory was there was surface rust from sitting and it mixed in with the oil. They changed the oil and filters , ran for 5 hours and oil samples came back fine. I put maybe 25 hours on the boat since then and 1/2 thru i installed a fresh water flush system in the sea strainers and started doing that. (among lots of other fixes/improvements)

I also looked into the aftercoolers with a tiny camera hooked up to my laptop and they actually looked pretty good/clean. The port side does have a fair amount of green staining on the bottom of the aftercooler.

anyway I’ll see what this new oil change does and if nothing changes then I will remove afercoolers and probably send them to sbmar and hope for the best.

[Dalton]

Thanks Phil

I understand what you are saying about random oil samples meaning very little but that seems to be the protocol. Whether I like it or not, these cash buyers are following the procedures by the mechanics and surveyors they hired and not much I can do about that. They all recommend (including my broker) to just change oil/filter and retry. If that fails then the buyers will run away I’m sure.

At that point, I will take your advice and get the aftercoolers serviced or replaced. Hopefully serviced! Then change the oil again and test. Even if I have documentation that the aftercooler service greatly improved the oil test numbers it won’t matter much if the next oil test fails again from a different buyer. I’m then back to square one.

It really sucks that I’m at the mercy of oil tests that may or may not prove anything substantial.

[Dalton]

Here’s a pic I just ran across. This shows the angle of the exhaust. Still not sure if thats acceptable, 15 degree or more but looks decent. The water line is about 4-5 inches above the bottom of the fuel tank.
The exhaust “shower” is about 3 inches past the clamps on the very left.

Yeah, they had plenty of room to make the riser even higher. Probably 8+ inches more room above it.

[Dalton]

Thanks James. Thats exactly what I will do. I’ll find a shop that can do it! I’d feel better if it were welded in or there was a nut on the inside.

[Dalton]

Donald, to reply to your post about the impeller/intake hose. At the time I noticed low flow I was at idle but also had the sea strainer open, a funnel inside with a tube to a bucket. (google seaflush system) At idle it took several minutes to suck up 5 gallons. I am convinced it just wasn’t primed…having an open strainer,funnel, tube in bucket ,etc

So when I removed the hose after the water pump, the water flow at idle was like a fire hose! filled up the bucket in seconds. Now if it took several minutes to fill up the bucket just as it did to empty it then I would know the intake hose is clogged. But water came gushing out like crazy! at idle.

Theres no obstructions at each end of the aftercooler and its very clean and clear. Heat exchanger looks perfect. All hoses in between look fine. So I believe it was just a priming issue and I will check again when all together. I’ll compare both engines (exhaust flow) at around 1500rpm at the dock.

[Dalton]

I can’t say for sure that mine is or isn’t 15 degrees. I know it’s probably close though so it’s on the cusp. Previous owner just replaced the riser on the port side and I got a new one for $1200 starboard side. So even if I’m not at 15 degrees and it’s not optimum I won’t pay the thousands to redo it all. I have too much money into it already and have yet to even enjoy the boat. My goal was to have fun with a boat, not to become a weekend mechanic and at some point I have to draw the line. So far, all I do is spend weekends wrenching away wondering wth am I doing. And I know I’m asking for it with that statement but to be honest I may have this boat another 2 years and move onto something else at this rate. If it lasted 17 years this way it can easily last another decade and I will fresh water flush for sure! No question there. May get 20+ years out of it.

I’ve done a TON of reading these past few months and read quite a bit on exhaust design. I know the issues and what should be done , etc I’ve learned a ton!
My main goal right now is to get on this boat and not worry about going 30-60 miles & breaking down. So I’m going thru literally everything! Down to light bulbs and cabinet hatches.

My plan now. Take apart the turbo for possible rebuild or buy a new one.
Put on new riser (I will measure angle just to see)
change oil – put in right amount. Install envirovent system
install fresh water flush valve/fitting on strainer.

last step, Try to enjoy my boat for the summer.

[Dalton]

Thanks Rob and James

yeah, its a lot of sitting around that’s for sure! We actually had to change the oil when doing oil samples because the salt air affected the oil. From what I was told, everything collected this residue on the walls and when the motor ran it mixed with oil and gave odd oil readings when tested. So they changed the oil and ran the boat for 5 hours and tested and samples were fine. It makes me wonder if thats the flaking on the turbo.

Also read on another old post that carbon build up could be from over propping and i know my boat is over propped.

But as far as the riser location/angle. The shower actually does face down quite a bit. My previous picture was probably a bad angle but I can take another. And it sits at least 20 inches above the water line. Probably more.

But Rob,it makes perfect sense what you said.

James, I’ve already started fresh water flushing. I bought the seaflush system which is a bit of a hassle (funnels and buckets) but it works. I’d like to tap into the strainer and do it that way. Not sure if I trust myself to do that on something so vital but possibly.

[Dalton]

So, thinking about salt water sitting in the turbo I figured the bottom of my riser would also hold water. Especially since it has this big lip and opens up. It’s like a cup sitting there. Attached is a picture where water would sit in the riser. To my surprise, no rust at all. Not even where water would gather that wouldn’t make it over the lip….. ?

also, took another photo of the turbo but this time farther away. I also ran my finger around it and those ‘gold flakes’ came off in one very light pass. I barely pressed. It was like rust dust sitting there. What this means, not sure. Notice the carbon build up doesn’t look so bad in this picture because of the angle.

anyway, I’ll take it apart soon and inspect.

[Dalton]

Tony, I appreciate the wisdom and I’m not sure why you would think I won’t believe something. Keep in mind, I have an untrained eye and if I knew this stuff I wouldn’t be here. This is my first marine diesel engine and the first time I ever touched a turbo in my life. I’m merely asking experts for some advice and also spending my dollars on this site.

Anyway, I compared pictures side by side to see the difference (so I can learn). My picture is clearer and zoomed in more so when I photoshopped it to match your picture the “raised bumps” looked identical or very very close. I’ll take the turbo apart and peek inside. As of now the blade clearance looks ok, shaft doesn’t wobble, spins free.

I ordered your Environvent system and will drain/add new oil to make sure my engine doesn’t have too much causing seepage out of the turbo. I spoke with one of your guys there and he said don’t rely on the dipstick, make sure it has 13qts. No more.

if I take the turbo apart and see more damage I may just replace it. That was really my question here. Is it fixable, rebuildable, trash, or its totally fine. Again, I’m not an expert and don’t pretend to be. I’m trying to save some money and enjoy my boat.

Also, I thought the flange bolts were so tough to remove because of high heat and age. That’s how it is on my old car exhaust system that never sees salt water. But I’m new to the marine stuff so pretty much everything I decide is a rough educated guess….hence me posting questions.

[Dalton]

Mine doesn’t look a whole lot different other than the goldish flakes here and there. What I am missing? is this turbo shot? keep in mind, its 18 years old but only 500 hours.

[Dalton]

Anyone? The turbo exhaust side look ok??

So here’s my dilemma. Surveyor said turbo smokes at full throttle. You can see the oil at the bottom. it’s just seapage, never really blew oil anywhere. It only has 500 hours on it. No way should it need a rebuild or even touched from what I’ve read/seen so far. I thought oil leak meant bad seal but it could be a number of other things and the turbo looks fine inside. Blades spin freely, doesn’t look eroded.

Same surveyor said pin holes in the mixing elbow but I just don’t see any evidence of that either. I’m replacing it anyway since the port side was just done & maybe there is the start of an issue.

But I’m stuck on the turbo. Could be the drain tube isn’t draining properly, excessive blow by, plugged up air filter, and I’m thinking of getting the Envirovent CCV system since it may help it all breath (and comes with new air filter)

Should I leave the turbo alone? See the pictures in the above post.
I wanna get this boat back together!

[Dalton]

Attached are the exhaust side pics. I got one bolt out after using PB blaster, torch, hammering, etc and the other 3 no luck at all. I had to grind the heads off and now I can work on getting those out. Maybe weld a nut to the stud and remove.

Anyway, i ‘think’ the turbo looks ok. Not really sure. Notice my 3rd picture where it shows the oil around the outside. THis is why I removed it to begin with. I think a seal is bad inside???
I may buy a HX40 rebuilt kit and attempt it. (even tho this is a hx40m) Did a lot of reading on it and it shouldn’t need balancing as long as I mark a few things to line it all up again. And I think the Marine version just has an extra seal compared to the hx40.

or is a sign of oil something worse and don’t waste my time with it?

[Dalton]

Yes, I know. Thats the important part and I am anxious to see it myself! I need to get the 4 stuck bolts off….Sunday project possibly. I’ll post real good pics once I remove the riser from the turbo.

I’m going to order some parts from the site also.
Question, I inspected my heat exchanger since i had it all out/drained and it looks great to my surprise. But I want to get new gaskets and I see the gasket kit comes with a smaller gasket for the bolt. My current setup didn’t have this.My generator did though.

I assume I need to use this and it would go in this order

Exchanger –> big gasket –> small gasket –>end cap — > bolt

Can someone confirm?

[Dalton]

So I got my riser and turbo out of the boat as one unit and need to work on separating them ..those stubborn bolts. But before I did this I wanted to check the impeller and it is fine. I actually removed a hose right after the impeller and pointed it into a bucket. Had someone start the boat and it filled up the bucket in seconds! (only ran engine for a few seconds)

So there is no debris at the water pump or before it. Once I got my turbo off I checked the heat exchanger by removing the end cap on the turbo side and its clean. I’ll check the other side next.

Also removed the hoses going into the aftercooler and the bottom zinc, inspected and its fine. Nice and clean actually.

So for now I’m coming to the conclusion that there is no debris and it was not priming when I did the seaflush system. When I get the motor back together I will run both motors and compare water flow out exhaust at maybe 1500 rpm just to verify.

Now onto my turbo mess…stuck riser, oil leaking from turbo, etc
I was told my riser was bad but from what I can see it looks ok inside….??see pics
i have a new one sitting here anyway.

[Dalton]

Thanks Donald. I will check that out for sure! I have a ton to do this weekend. Remove bad exhaust riser, remove turbo (hope its not ruined), look for blockage at/around water  pump, check heat exchanger, and then everything involved just getting to these areas. I think these hoses are going to fight me all the way! I have hose removal tools, heat gun and some patience all in stock.

 

[Dalton]

Donald,

How would impeller bits travel backwards or against the flow? I would think debris would travel towards the aftercooler. I do have an inspection camera so I will put it to good use this weekend.

[Dalton]

barnacle growth at the thru hull would not affect what i was doing. I had a tube in the seastrainer and thru hull valve closed so I was only sucking in fresh water from a bucket. I would like an easier solution but first things first.

But I’m not 100% convinced that I just don’t have some blockage in the heat exchanger. It’s hard for me to imagine that with partial blockage it would be enough pressure to expand hoses or push them off altogether. My generator was about 85% plugged up at the exchanger and it actually ran ok, didn’t overheat and no hoses expanded or came off. But I’ve been wrong plenty of times before so …. I just need to take some things apart and I will find the issue. Of course starting with the easiest first.

[Dalton]

ok thanks for clarifying!

So I guess another possibility is there is some blockage BEFORE the raw water pump & after the sea strainer. This would explain why the hoses don’t expand, etc . Guess I have some investigating to do. Hopefully its as simple as an air lock or bad impeller but I kind of doubt it..nothing is simple.

[Dalton]

hmm ok I will look. So by your comment I assume the heat exchanger (even if fully clogged) won’t stop the flow of water coming out of the exhaust and thru the whole system. The heat exchanger is just another area of flow but not THE area of flow I take it??

This is a new seamax pump by the way. Just a couple months old, maybe 6 hours on it.  So you are saying I should really loosen the impeller plate, have someone run the motor until I see lots of flow (or don’t see flow) ?

or maybe remove the large hose coming off the pump and run the motor for 5-10 seconds and see if a lot of water flows out?

Not sure of the best way to test the pump itself. I know its working because it did take in 5 gallons but it just took like 2 minutes.

A month or two ago I did this same thing with barnacle buster /water and now thinking back it did the same thing on this engine. Maye the exhaust riser is that screwed up with blockage??

[Dalton]

If this is worth anything….when I bought my boat the oil sample failed in a few areas. A mechanic noticed the previous owners used the boat for 10 hours per year (really didn’t use it at all) and he said change the oil/filters etc and run the boat for 5 hours and retest.  They did and it passed.

I could be wrong here but the theory was something like this. The boat sat, salt water air put a little deposit or rust on the walls, then when they ran the boat (got it warm) and took oil samples the first time it mixed with those ‘deposits’ giving false readings.

[Author]

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