Question on labor rates

[Dalton]

I had some work done on my boat and I got the bill and it was double what I expected. I was confused and asked why and they told me because they had 2 guys working on it so the rate doubled to $170/hour. They replaced a water heater so I know it isn’t cummins related so please tell me if this post isn’t allowed. (I figured general discussion I’d be ok)

Aside from the fact that I’m not sure how 2 guys fit into a small space for 8 hours…I just don’t know if this is normal billing practice. I’ve always thought if a job took 10 hours to do you get charged for 10 hours…not for how many guys are standing around & then double or triple it.

So I’m getting charged $1500 for labor alone to replace water heater.

Topic

[james]

More info on labor rate.

The mechanic’s I use have rates in the 100 to 110 range.  Sometimes they bring a helper, but the rate stays the same.  I do a lot of work myself, and always observe someone at least twice, before I’m comfortable with them working independently.  I pay very promptly (within a day), so get good attention and can negotiate a bit.  We never enter into a job with out understanding scope of work and a reasonable estimate of time.  I did have 1 bad experience with an injector shop, who took 3 times as long to complete the work as they said, and then inflated the price by about 40% over what was quoted.  Needless to say, they got a highly negative review on google, and will not be used by me again.

 

[Rob Schepis]

William Walter wrote:

…….with two mechanics with one working and one smoking cigarettes at the stern . ….

I hope these guys are not all on the “customer’s dime” !https://youtu.be/NGN4qer9GGo

[Larry Backman]

My experience as a knowledgeable owner

i don’t turn wrenches on anything that’s mission critical like engine, gear or steering but I research, understand and do my best to communicate clearly and calmly with my mechanics on things they are working on.

i have called bullshit in the past, have had conflict with mechanics and yards over my views on what should be done/how it is done and I’m not afraid  to sit and watch and learn for a bit, even if the mechanic/yard doesn’t want me there.  I will quickly back off and get out of the way once the real work starts to let the pros do their job.

 

its my money and my boat and also my life on the line at sea so imho, it’s critical I be both informed and in the decision loop on all things related to my boat.

[William Walter]

Yes Tony having access to this forum has been helpful in making decisions about my boat.wish I knew what I know now about the boat and engines when I purchased it.even though I’ve been boating my whole life I realize knowledge is key so I’ve enjoyed reading your tips.thanks again for the help.Bill

[Tony Athens]

Bill,

Thanks for a different perspective as to this.. Unfortunately, not everyone pushes themselves hard enough to be close to hands-on with all the things that pop up over time as to boat & engine maintenance..

A goal for me would be that what I post helps those that an get to that goal……Maybe it has helped you?

Tony

 

 

 

 

[William Walter]

Being a do it yourselfer I understand your concern when you get a bill like you got..so many times I’ve watched the mechanics at my previous marina work on a boat next to me with two mechanics with one working and one smoking cigarettes at the stern . Then the people would tell me about the bill and the mess they made and I would just cringe. For the last 30 years I’ve never had to pay a mechanic for anything and have had great success.with my new boat I realize I do not have the knowledge to deal with everything I want to do because I’m new to diesels.so what I did was ask around for a good mechanic and when I found someone I gave them an easy job just to see how it went.i was in need of help because I had a lot of other issues with boat.once I developed a relationship with him I have now put him on some bigger jobs.its all about trust.now if he suggests something I consider it because I know it probably needs to be done.this all goes out the window if you’re married to a marina and have to use their machanic.bill

[Rob Schepis]

Jerry ,

Welcome aboard.  I’ve read a bunch of your stuff on downeast.  Great to have a guy here that walks the docks day in and day out with a toolbag in hand who is clearly in the industry with a passion for doing things right and helping people!

Now get rid of that crappy tablet and start posting pics!

[Jerry Farnham]

As I said in my post I work at a boatyard as a marine mechanic and systems tech. I do all the diesel work at the yard, along with repairing, replacing, or new installs of F/W systems, A/C’s, Black/Gray water systems, boat building, and etc. My father is a lobsterman with a 6BT-210 and it has 13,000 hours on it. I do all the work to that… for free of coarse. I have a few Cummins engines at my current yard. I had a few at my last yard that where “my babies”. I have always liked the Cummins product. I have had issues with Cummins North East in the past with there lack of customer service, but recently had much better experiences with them. I am certified on FPT, Yanmar, and VaccuFlush… yes its a toilet. Most of my work is well documented on the downeastboatforum.com website. Go ahead and check out my winter work 2015/2016 thread. The yard I am working for may send me to Cummins school this winter. I hope I am able to go.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Corey Schmidt

[Tony Athens]

Jerry,

Thanks for chiming in…..Glad we got input from all sides.. And you are 100% right in your approach as the customers has his responsibilities too..

Just for my info, I do get requests for someone to recommend back that way often for work..  Can you send me some more details of your particular  passions an expertise with Cummins engines and or general boat systems.  I’d like to get this in my data base..

But even more important, anything you see here that you could offer some help on would be more than appreciated by our readership..

 

Thanks, Tony

 

 

 

 

[Jerry Farnham]

Seems like this thread has run its coarse and I am just going to echo what has already been said somewhat. I am a marine mechanic and systems tech at a boatyard. We provide estimates upon request and normally do not charge over 10% of the estimate. So I guess what I am saying is always ask for an estimate. Any good tech at a good yard should be able to provide that.

[Dalton]

Thanks Tony. This is the answer I was looking for actually. The mechanic and myself came to a final agreement today and all is fine. We made a compromise and I don’t really feel great about it because if it was earned then it was earned. I don’t want to come off the jerk in the matter.

Rob, how I came to the conclusion that it wasn’t a real big job is because I know a guy with the same boat that did it himself. He just cut the old one apart and out and it was just a few hours. I didn’t feel like making a crazy amount of noise at the marina so I opted to let trained pros do it….maybe without a saw. But with $1500 savings I would’ve made all the noise in the world for an hour or two.

Lesson learned. Next time I will try and pin the person down to a price or get a bid with a little room to play. The problem here in San Diego I can’t seem to find a person that wants to work this way. And I don’t like being at the mercy of how slow they work or adding their crew to the job. I don’t want to pay $85/hour for a 2nd guy to hand the main guy some tools. haha, but seriously.

I totally agree with your last statement in that respect Rob.

Thankfully, this matter has been resolved and I’m a little smarter.

[Rob Schepis]

Surprises like that are never good but that should have been the type of job that you knew what you (they or anyone) were getting into just by inspecting it before the work and having a good understanding as to what it entailed.  The fact that you mentioned just how tight the work area was is exactly what does justify that second man.  One in the hole and one up top.

Every shop has different billing structures, their own specific overheads, etc. but I would think the 2nd man should be billed out at a lesser rate so the labor cost would not have to double.  But $170 for two guys seems reasonable if it were something like $120 for the tech and $50 for the helper.  It would have been best if that second set of hands were yours for both the $$ savings and the learning experience but being able to work along side a tech is an entire other issue in itself that has been debated on time after time…

[Tony Athens]

Ken,

As with any job, it’s really up to the person asking for the work to be done to have a clear understanding of the cost of the job and how it will be billed out.  I am not privy to the shop you hired, but I’d guess most jobs we do as a “T&M job”, and we quote it at let’s say,  $100/ hr, then that would be per guy that will be productive on the job.. Sometimes, some jobs need just a “helper”, and that could easily be at a lesser rate per hour………But I will say that I am always clear on that as to exactly what the cost will be that way.. If the job is a “BID”, then in is what it is…………

So, this is probably  not the answer you want.. Maybe a fellow boat owner will chime in as I look at it as the vendor, not the guy with the wallet.

 

Tony

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