Cummins Marine Diesel Repower Specialists › Forums › Cummins Marine Engines › Boost numbers
- This topic has 11 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by Trevor Parnell.
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December 13, 2016 at 2:27 am #13509
Trevor ParnellParticipantVessel Name: Discovery
Engines: Cummins 6bta
Location: Bowen
Country: Australia
My own 6bta 250hp Cpl 1322 has been causing me some headaches lately. I am suspecting lack of boost from the turbo as it used to run a lot cleaner out the back (black soot from the exhaust). Full throttle rpmsĀ are 1900 to 2000 at best which I know is way too low. The boat is clean underneath and the prop is clean also.
What I would like to know is what sort of figures for boost should I see when I check and will a QSB 5.9 turbo swap with the one currently fitted (at least for testing purposes) as I have 1 I can try that is in good shape.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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January 16, 2017 at 1:25 pm #14475
Trevor ParnellParticipantVessel Name: Discovery
Engines: Cummins 6bta
Location: Bowen
Country: Australia
Thanks Tony, I appreciate the input.
January 16, 2017 at 7:42 am #14466
Tony AthensModeratorVessel Name: Local Banks
Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
Location: Oxnard, CA
Country: USA
You don’t want to change to a ZF63A..Ā The change over would be a complete redo of the entire engine mounting system. Plus it’s a much lighter duty gear.
Tony
January 15, 2017 at 8:58 pm #14460
Trevor ParnellParticipantVessel Name: Discovery
Engines: Cummins 6bta
Location: Bowen
Country: Australia
The main reason I was after boost numbers was that it IS possible to under load an under performing engine and end up with 2 issues. The current engine trans combo used to top out at 18 – 19 knots light load (as far as deck equipment and stuff) and tow a dory at 10 – 12 knots.
I have been looking at transmissions for a while now and only come up with 1 that is used but the owner wants new money for. I am also currently looking at the possibility of changing to a ZF63 as they are more available locally.December 15, 2016 at 7:52 am #13640
Rob SchepisForum ModeratorVessel Name: Tenacious
Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: USA
Tony, I put the feelers out and may be able to get a low hour ZF 220a at 2 to 1 ratio. Would you consider that to be enough of a drop in ratio?
That would be the best way to go.Ā That is what you want –Ā a slowerĀ turning bigĀ prop for best efficiency for heavy slower speed running andĀ less horsepower demand.
December 15, 2016 at 5:40 am #13638
Tony AthensModeratorVessel Name: Local Banks
Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
Location: Oxnard, CA
Country: USA
100% YES..Ā
Tony
December 15, 2016 at 3:30 am #13637
Trevor ParnellParticipantVessel Name: Discovery
Engines: Cummins 6bta
Location: Bowen
Country: Australia
Tony,
I put the feelers out and may be able to get a low hour ZF 220a at 2 to 1 ratio. Would you consider that to be enough of a drop in ratio?
December 14, 2016 at 6:36 am #13555
Tony AthensModeratorVessel Name: Local Banks
Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
Location: Oxnard, CA
Country: USA
Real simple————————You are really just “lugging your engine to death” using a 1.5:1 gear and that size of a prop.. Ā You need to MOVE the RPM 300-400 Ā to get your current vessel or 8-9Kts..This engine needs to spin much easier to get the power you need, and that means MORE RPM so you are above peak torque RPM but at least 200 R’s———— I’d be changing gear ratios or be shopping for a new prop ( if you could find one with 3-4″ less pitch)
Tony
December 14, 2016 at 3:35 am #13551
Trevor ParnellParticipantVessel Name: Discovery
Engines: Cummins 6bta
Location: Bowen
Country: Australia
The weight added with the tanks and ice boxes would be roughly 1 1/2 tonnes
There is 1 ice box at 270lts, another at 500lts plus an 750 litre water tank.
Fuel supply is very good and the turbo hasn’t ever had a salt bath that I know of (nor the previous owner).
What I found out today was that the turbo cartridge had been replaced at some stage prior to me buying the boat and I suspect it would have been the cheapest thing Evil Bay could have provided as I know the previous owner quite well now.
I have read enough of Tony’s articles to realise that 99.5 percent of times this issue would have to be overloading, and I believe it may well be, but I don’t want to go spending money on slipping, and removing propellorsĀ for repitching (which I have already done once) , only to find I could have checked the boost and found an easier problem to fix.Ā The other thing I didn’t mention is — you just don’t seem to hear the turbo at lower rpms like other boats.
Off to sea tonight.
December 13, 2016 at 8:04 pm #13547
WooParticipantVessel Name: Obsession
Engines: 6BTA5.9M3 (370) x 2
Location: East Coast
Country: Australia
Mate, what were the RPM’s achieved with a clean bum before you added all the weight. I’m assuming you’ve added quite a lot.
If the fuel supply is good, the turbo isn’t ruined from getting a salt bath, then you’re likely looking at a simple over-load situation. But without some hard data it’s impossible to really know. And the pictures help heaps, they say a thousand words.
December 13, 2016 at 2:17 pm #13519
Trevor ParnellParticipantVessel Name: Discovery
Engines: Cummins 6bta
Location: Bowen
Country: Australia
Tony,
Thanks for your timely reply. I have read many of your articles and consider them “maritime gold” for the motorboat owner. I even managed to read the recommended one after my first post.
Quick history — Engine was torn down and inspected, measured and all internals found to be in spec,Ā valves reground,Ā turbo was just bolted back on (no leaks oil, ect, barely perceptible movement in bearings). This was all carried out around 4 years ago, (during overhaul of engine bearers in boat) and the engine may have 1000hrs since. Engine work was done as I had no history on it and I am in the trade. (Diesel Fitter). Boat originally had only 4″ wet exhaust, I replaced it with 5″ as recommended. Prop is a 3 blade 23×16 “mouse ear” style and the gear is a 1.5:1 zf220a. Best I can recall I was gettingĀ 2500 at around 18 – 19 kts. Cruising wasĀ 10 – 12 kts at 2000-2100.
“Lately” I guess means recently I have started commercially fishing for Coral Trout and so have increased the load on the boat (12 months now) and mostly cruise around 8-9 kts at 1600 but am noticing soot on the back getting a little worse than I remembered from before even at 1600.
I carriedĀ out a valve set a fortnight ago as part of normal maintenance, doing fuel filters, oil ect.
To put it on the mark, I guess I’m juggling between a boat loading issue OR engine power issue. The engine runs fine normally, sounds good mechanically (although a little noisy).
To unload the boat from the fish holding tanks and ice boxesĀ would be more bolts and work than it would be to replace the turbo (provided the QSB one will fit ) for testing purposes, so I thought if I had a figure I should see for boost, I could check it and sort out which area to address. I realise that I wont see full boost figures with low RPM’s but there should be a figure at which I’m getting enough air into the engine to run clean(er).
Also, I’m not after the last bit of performance, it just seems like its lacking a bit.
December 13, 2016 at 8:26 am #13512
Tony AthensModeratorVessel Name: Local Banks
Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
Location: Oxnard, CA
Country: USA
#1————–What does “Lately mean?
TellĀ me the complete history of the engines operation.
When was the last time the engine made over 2600RPM?
Ever read this and followed it “as written”
I want to see GOOD pictures of your engine as installed in the boat. All angles, all perspectives, all “clear & in focus”.. Post here and send direct in high res
Tony
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