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  • #13653

    Kas vd Merwe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Blackwatch
    Engines: Cummins 6BTa -330
    Location: Richards Bay
    Country: South Africa

    330 HP cooling problem

    I have a twin installation of 330Hp 6Bta´s. After a long layup, as precautionary maintenance, the sea water pump was replaced and all the coolers cleaned and serviced so I know the sea water system is working 100% (seawater strainer also not restricted. Injectors were removed and professionally serviced and found to be good. Thereafter I got Cummins in to do a health check. Blow-by found to be within specification but the one engine produced excessive smoke, and the temperature (Measured with an IR thermometer) was higher than the other at the same RPM. It also set off the heat alarm at around 1800 rpm, before the thermostat would fully open. Once it opened, the temperature dropped immediately and the alarm went off.

    On the recommendation of Cummins, the injector pump was removed and recalibrated, and the thermostat and and the rubber gasket were replaced with original cummins parts 5292738 – Thermostat and 392331 – gasket

    After this work the excessive smoke is gone and the engine runs very well throughout the RPM range.

    Up to 1500 RPM everything seems to be normal on the temperature as well. However even with the new thermostat the engine still heats up into the alarm zone >91 Deg celsius when operated above 1800 RPM, seemingly without the thermostat opening.

    When it eventually does open fully at around 96 deg C, there is an almost immediate and noticable drop in temperature and the gauge reads normal, but the alarm stays on. However when the temperature on the engine is measured right next to the temperature sender it did not go above 97 Deg C, but the heat exchanger remained at a much lower temperatur (+- 60 deg C) which to me indicate that the thermostat does not let the coolant, or enough coolant through into the heat exchanger to maintain the operating temperature at 86 deg C where it should be. ( Note that I have also cold checked the sender and the wiring right up to the control panel and found that the measured resistance is correct for the measured temperature.

    Now I am stuck….. Can anybody suggest what else to check?

    Maybe I should add that I have also taken the old thermostat and measured the difference between open and close with a vernier – it is just over 6mm @ 96 deg C, which is within specification, so maybe I should not even have removed it.

    Everything in my mind now points to a faulty coolant circulation pump. How can I check this?

Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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  • #13854

    Kas vd Merwe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Blackwatch
    Engines: Cummins 6BTa -330
    Location: Richards Bay
    Country: South Africa

    test gadget

    Here is a scetch of my home made test gadget

    #13848

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Good job..

     

     

    Tony

    #13846

    Kas vd Merwe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Blackwatch
    Engines: Cummins 6BTa -330
    Location: Richards Bay
    Country: South Africa

    Problem solved!

    Thanks to all who provided input – I have the problem solved. It was an undiagnosed airlock in the closed cooling circuit after all, which was presumably created by me, when filling up with new coolant after bench servicing the gearbox cooler, heat exchanger and after cooler.

    It does cheese me off though that when Cummins was called it, to do a a-z health check on the engine, they picked up the overheating problem and put in a new thermostat, but failed to pick up or purge the airlock before replacing the thermostat!

    For the benefit of others, this is what I have done.

    Firstly I made up a 40mm piece with a 1/4″ socket to which I connected a pressure gauge. This I installed in-line just after the sea-water exit from the heat exchanger. This way, I was able to eliminate a possible sea water restriction in the exhaust mixer.

    I then ran the boat with the radiator cap off the expansion (header) tank, slowly increasing speed, allowing the engine to heat up slowly. Once it went above 70 deg C bubbles started escaping from the coolant.

    Once the thermostat opened the remaining bubbles escaped.

    I then closed the radiator cap and opened the bleed nipple until a steady stream of un-aerated coolant escaped, closed up and voila – to the amazement of the technician, the problem was resolved.

    I ran the boat with WOT on one engine only, and could not force the temperature to go above 83deg C after this purge !!!
    Once again, Thanks everybody!

    #13787

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    12 years & 1800 hours. in seawater, I presume……….A few degrees?  What exactly does that mean?

    Explain exactly what “preventive maintenance” is for each part that was worked on??

    Were your aftercoolers  REMOVED from the engines and serviced ON THE BENCH per my protocol?

     

    Install 160 Hi-flow stats …..These were developed specifically for “problem engines” or   mechanical B’s  that run on plane close to the edge. …..By the time Cummins released the QSB’s, they all went to 160F stats..

    Usually the engine with the “bus heater” will run a tad cooler, not hotter if all is right. If the lines going to the heart are hot, the coolant is circulating to it.

     

    Tony

     

    #13772

    Kas vd Merwe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Blackwatch
    Engines: Cummins 6BTa -330
    Location: Richards Bay
    Country: South Africa

    Reply 2

    The boat is a 34ft Blackwatch (Similar hull to a Bertrams 31) It is about 12 years old and the engines have done 1800 hours but has been standing on the hard most of the time over the last 3 years, Therefore all the preventative maintenance done on all the coolers, raw water pump, injector and injector pump.

    From new, this SB engine had a tendency to run a few degrees warmer than the port, but never “hot”
    I do have a water heater on board and will check if it gets hot (I never use this – it might not even have fresh water in it at the moment)

    The thermostat and almost all the coolant was replaced by Cummins a few days ago so maybe I do have an airlock somewhere….. When they return tomorrow, I will ask them to specifically check this. thanks for the feedback thus far.

    #13733

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Your response does not satisfy me that the coolant loop was properly burped and that there is no air lock in the system.  I am not saying this is definitely your issue (it is much higher on the list than the coolant pump) but an air lock in the system will cause erratic hot spots.  This is just too easy to not investigate further and then be 100% sure it can be checked off the list.

    The OEM temp switch should be 205degF.

    The temperature switches I have tested for redundant temp alarms re-open at approx. 10 degrees less then the closing setpoint.

    How many hours on the engine?  The coolant pump is always way down the list as they have proven to have a long service life.  They usually drip or squeal not fail to circulate.  You can pull the pump and check the impeller for cavitation damage which could have a diminishing effect on the flow.

    Would you happen to have a water heater onboard that has a coolant heat exchanger in it.  If so, is the water getting hot as it normally would.  If yes, you are circulating coolant.

    What type of boat is this in?  A planing hull that likes to run 2,300 or so?  My recommendation would be to pull the thermostat and install an SMX160 hi-flow tstat and be diligent about a slow coolant refill and running the engine up to thermostat opening temperature once or twice with the cap loose to fully burb the system.  while the coolant was out you could pull the pump for inspection.  If there are high hours replace it while it’s off since the labor is already incurred and it’s not a pricey item, all things considered..

    #13732

    Kas vd Merwe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Blackwatch
    Engines: Cummins 6BTa -330
    Location: Richards Bay
    Country: South Africa

    330 6BTa – cooling problem – follow up

    Thanks for your reply

    I did post my questions……

    In answer to yours:
    1. I am using the original Cummins supplied VDO sender and switches as per the attachment
    2. To the best of my knowledge there was no airlock after filling with coolant.
    3. When the problem was first encountered, Cummins technicians installed a new Genuine Cummins thermostat 5292738 and new gasket and I presume that they have properly vented the coolant system when they re-filled it.
    4. I have no idea why the alarm comes on at 196 deg F Note that I have verified that with a IR thermometer aimed at a spot right adjacent to the sender at the time. At the same time, the heat exchanger was still much colder at the inlet just below the vent valve (below 160 deg F) and the the actual body of the heat exchanger even colder just over 130 deg F.
    5. At what temperature should the alarm come on, and once on, at what temperature should it switch off again?
    6. Note that I do not believe this is simply an alarm issue – I have actually measured temperatures of 206 deg F adjacent to the sender before I slowed down to allow the engine to cool off

    I now want to test the functioning if the coolant circulation pump itself – advice on how to do this or where to measure the pressure would be highly appreciated

    #13665

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Are you using the OEM sender/switch and instruments?  Why is the alarm coming on at 196 deg F?  Upon coolant refill(s) have you burped the system and verified no air-lock?

     

Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)

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