ZF220 gears are “backwards”

[Matthew]

Hello.

I am working on one Bertram boat from 60′,history bit of a mystery,and have noticed that gears are engaging “backwards”,that means,when i put lever in forward,really gearbox is in reverse,on both engines.

Boat has Morse dual lever station with cables,MT 3 model i think,and there i don’t see really that i can change something..

Am i not seeing something? Owner did told me that props are correctly installed,on gearboxes itself doesn’t look that somebody was tinkering there..Is it possible to pull out selector and turn it around,if that makes sense,or is possible?

Thank you.

Topic

[Matthew]

Hello guys. Diver did swap props,now is back to normal,appreciated your advices.

Boat runs okay,still big unknown as for engine output,or any other infos,beside that is obsolete Mitsubishi 6D14 engine,we did small seatrial,and it was fine.

Engine tick over was quite hard,mean when enganging in gear,boat was moving faster,blame was that idle was around 800rpm’s. I did readjust on port engine at 650 rpm’s,but now owner is saying that cold starting is pour.

Starboard engine if i drop revs around 700 rpm’s,starts to shake quite a lot,that engine also smokes more,and it smells like unburnt fuel. But this is now up to owner,and possible winter works.

Once again,thank you for your help,really glad to be a part of this community.

[Fireisland1]

Props in picture is not typical. . Easy way to figure prop left or right . From behind put right hand into top of right prop and left hand in top of left prop. Hands should sit flat on blade.

[Matthew]

I didn’t forget about you guys,this thursday is moment of truth,boat goes out and i will swap over props,and then again test run,will keep you posted.

[Matthew]

This photo was taken before,but not sure when,it is just unknown history,lot of guys was messing around this boat..

[Rob Schepis]

Matthew wrote:

Please have a look at photo,and then we can chat.

That is opposite the norm. When was that photo taken – just now? or sometime ago before the props were pulled and your forward reverse got screwed up?

[Matthew]

Hello guys. Today i’ve received Word document with two photos,which have some mechanic before who knows when,make them,and make an drawing how props wre turning,which is completly wrong.

Please have a look at photo,and then we can chat.

[Tony Athens]

Not at all…………………..Your branches sound that they are way more important than the props be reversed………Backwards installed props has a 1+1=2 solution..

Your “branches” will most likely lead to way more involved solutions that need to be addressed “sooner than later”.. Amplify as needed.

Post away, you have the forum’s ears..

[Matthew]

Should i better just comment on gear problem,so i don’t “spam” much with other issues?

Sorry if i did wrong something,i mean,started with other problems as well..

[Tony Athens]

I think it’s time to post really good pictures of your engines as installed in the boat.. Show it all–all angles & all perspectives..All clear & in-focus..

Your thread is now going in totally different directions and growing very big branches..

[Matthew]

Hello Tony. Yes,gathering new informations as you can see. Today we have done first seatrial,port engine under load was smoking black,and exhaust was getting hot,also turbocharger,starboard engine running far more cooler and without overheating so to say.

Boat has old marinised Mitsubishi engines,and infos are difficult to find,engine model stickers are missing,i have only serial number from block,but is turbocharged engine,and serial number is for engine without turbo..

I will remove aftercooler and see how it looks from inside,turbos are new,suspecting that engine is missing air flow to engine,and burning too much fuel.

[Tony Athens]

New story–Props were removed and re-installed / switched? Yes, that would do it.

RH prop=starboard side
LH prop= port side

Outboard turning is normal for forwad, but not mandtory.

Send a diver down to confirm

1 user thanked author for this post.

Matthew

[Matthew]

Okay,Bill,then i will call up divers to come and swap the props,and i will see then what happenes.

Because lever mechanism doesn’t look that somebody was switching cables or doing something there,it would be just too much of an hassle.

[Bill]

Yup. Props are on backwards. Swap the props and you will be good to go.

Happened to a friend of mine. Diver put props on backwards during a trip. Owner ended up putting throttles in reverse to go forward get home and then swapped them at his home port.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Matthew

[Matthew]

Yes i an saying that boat moves backwards when shifted in forward.

Today we have take out for first time boat to small seatrial,port engine shaft turns counterclockwise,and starboard side clockwise,that is good.

Are you saying that props needs to be swapped only? Because owner did told me today that they have swapped them when boat was in storage..That makes no sense,or mechanic didn’t know also what he is doing..

Thank you for reply.

[Bill]

Are you saying the boat moves backwards when shifted into forward? Or are you saying both transmissions turn in the same direction of rotation and its opposite of what you’d expect?

Assuming the boat has straight drives, normally port transmission turns counterclockwise in forward (as you look at it from aft) and starboard transmission turns clockwise in forward. Port would have a left handed prop and starboard would have a right handed prop. If this is the case on your boat then the props are on the wrong side. Just swap the props in this case.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Matthew

[Matthew]

Thanks Tony. Props can’t be faulty in this case? Still unsure what they install it,because on twin engines you can have left and right hand props mounted..

Because it seems strange that somebody didn’t install levers corectly,and that boat was just left that way..

And i understand it that those levers you can adjust only throttle mechanism?

[Tony Athens]

You have to FLIP over the shift mechanism inside the Morse control –It’s designed to do that–Push to pull or visa versa…………….1st time you do it it’s a head scratched, but once you understand how it works, it will seem simple.

A serious caution: This particular control series has a history of not being set up properly on the gear side to where it DOES NOT fully engage the gear which leads to clutch slipping–The rest is then history..

Heed my caution.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Matthew

[Matthew]

Regarding props,that is also unknown which type this boat has,this is also now in mind. As for moving cable to opposite side of gearbox,that is impossible,because cables then are too short and bended to be installed that way.

And as for to switch cables,i just don’t see inside of mechanism other point to install cables,is Morse MT3 dual lever.

[donald roth]

It’s likely that you can switch the cable to the other side of the control head, most are pretty universal that way, or move the cable mount at the transmission end to the opposite side of the actuator.
Or switch the props.

[Author]

Replies