Cummins 480 CE

[Michael Cox]

Hello,  I am thankful I found this site. as I am looking at the 390 Sea Ray Motor Yachts to do  some cruising and the loop . Most for sale  have the 480 CE motor  800-1500 hours .  From reading older posts : 

*It looks I should plan on new  heads and Prop work at minimum ?

*I should figure $15k – $20k  ?

*Are heads available?  

It seems like the smart thing is to go to a newer model  but there are so many  with the 480 CE at a good price (for a reason I see now ) that I am still tempted 

Any input sure is  appreciated, Mike

 

Topic

[Tim]

Steve,

  I am running 23×25 props and love them with the 480CE.   2″ of pitch out and she purrs.  I stick / hover around 22-2250 and sometimes at fast speed I’ll push her to 2300.    If anything, i’m a little under propped but I’ll live with that 🙂

[Tony Athens]

Steve,

The base forum crashed ( hacked by the Russians- LOL) a couple of days ago and Corey is working on a menu glitch, and the picture thingee.

[Steve Lewis]

Something is up. I do not see any of the docs or pics that are part of the thread. Will look at things in a couple of days. My buddy sent more pics so there is more to share including pics of new heads.

Happy New Year

[Mike Veal]

I’m not seeing attachments in your post. I’m very interested as I have twin low hour 480CE’s

[Steve Lewis]

Just for Fun………

We are finally getting the Cylinder heads replaced, and the new SMX water pumps installed!  My buddy from our dock is stored behind us in the heated building.  He took the picture.  Starboard engine is being disassembled now.  Thought this might be relevant context to this discussion.  The props were done over the last 2 seasons and now we get the new and improved heads.  We will be in good shape for summer cruising, 2023 and beyond.

[Michael Cox]

Turbo Discoloration

Thanks, Tony .

 The color was one small issue of many.   I   like  the  one particular  newer model   with the QSB 5.9  for many other reasons .   I think   overall  it is a better value  even before  I came across this  480 CE issue.   So I was easily swayed back to that one  

 Also I did receive some fuel burns (owners log) from one of the  older models  I liked  with the  480 CE . (see below) 

 100rpm, 8mph 3.6 gph

 1250 rpm,9.5 mph ,6.8 gph 

 2250 rpm,23mph,34 gph

 

 Reading your info leads me to believe that the main concern is the overloading  and this seems overloaded??  

 Also it seems to me that none of the ones for  sale with the 480 CE mention anything about propping or loading .  ,It does not feel like they are acknowledging it to be an issue. That makes me uneasy . To be fair I have not asked many questions of the sellers  or spent  much time  on it yet . 

  I would do the normal procedure  at sale , which would include full engine survey with the rest of the survey process  ,hopefully a  Cummings expert  , after an offer with contingencies .  Are you recommending hiring someone  before I get to that point or ? 

 

 All this said, while we have been looking at boats  for a while and even made an offer (Cruisers Yachts w Yanmars) we have not even   looked at this model in person yet . Only pictures  where I saw some brown color .   

  I am in Las Vegas and the boats are not !  (the one with the 480 EC is not even close to the newer model)   I am planning  on  picking  something to view and viewing it in a couple weeks though  . 

Thanks again for all the  amazing help , Mike

 

 

 

[Tony Athens]

Turbo Discoloration

Mike, IMO you are totaling missing the BIG picture as to your concerns.   You don’t discard any particular engine because of “ air housing turbo discoloration”. This is a normal occurrence but yes. there are degrees of discoloration that give a experienced person a clue as to how the engine has been used or how much time , % wise, the vessel has spent at higher engine cruise loads. There are also many types of “white paint” that discolor at 200-300+ F way worse than others——————-Think of it this way– Your turbo is a 10-20 HP air compressor and the compressed output air can easily go above 300F.. Now remove the turbo air housing and have it professionally buffed out and then polish the SS air tubes going to the aftercooler…. WHAT HEAT YOU SAY??   

 

What you really need to get a handle on is:  

 

A- whether the engine in the boat is suited you your need for speed at the weight you need to load the boat up to

 

B-History of proper engine maintenance–Internal & external—Oil changes IS really not the big one here

 

C– How is the engine loaded as to the printed power curves

 

D–Exhaust design

 

E–The history of the particular model engine model you are looking the –The 480C is a good engine but many of them were overloaded due to very poor Cummins interaction with boat builders in the early years of there marketing. IMO, Cummins left quite a bit of room for improvement in their zealous extra performance quest . As to the QSB 425, do extra research of that particular model of the QSB 5.9 before you jump. No systemic issues, but the 425 rating ( two CPL’s) and some of the associated parts have some quirks In your boat search, sometimes it’s best to use a experienced pro with decades of actual experience to guide you thru the process if you are green at this. Let the pro’s past “learning curves” save you the shoulda, woulda, coulda’s

[Michael Cox]

480 CE

Thanks  Matt ! I sure appreciate it ! 

I can see some of the brown turbos on the photos of the ones I am looking at .  I am leaning back to the  newer model  now . Out of   14  or so on the market only two  have the  QSB 5.9L HO 425  motors which I assume  does not have this issue 

-Mike

[hifirush]

Steve is right!

Steve, as usual, has given excellent advice. The 480CE’s need to have a fuel burn the same as the 450’s, so that has all to do with the props. Like his SeaRay, my Tiara is over propped as well. This spring I will have 2-3 inches taken out. Fortunately, for me, my heads have been replaced (why no prop tuning…?). I didn’t really find this out until I went through all the records that the boat came with. The new heads have different part numbers that supersede the bad heads. So, yes, they are available. 

The one thing I feel that is tell tale when looking at these engines in boats, is the color of the turbos. If they are chocolatey brown, they have had a lot of heat, from being over worked (over propped). Mine was light brown, and has stayed that way. But my fuel burn is still off, but not by much, when I get them done I am taking my burn numbers with me to the prop guy. I don’t really care about losing a bit of top speed for longevity, and probably slightly better fuel economy. I just did a test log of my speed, % of engines and fuel burn and found my boat gets .941 MPG at 2200 RPM’s (62% engine load) but the total fuel burn for both engines is over the 450HP mark by 2 gallons. I think that is pretty good fully fueled and full water and just me on board.

I need to add pyro and water flow meters and couple others, just for added ability to monitor the engines and what they are doing.

Tony has great tips and has developed a lot of products that will help our engines last longer, be more efficient and run better. Definitely read through the tips section, LOTS of great info there. Good luck and have fun looking! 

Happy Holidays, Hifirush, Matt

[Michael Cox]

480 CE info

Wow! what great info ! I will  read everything thoroughly  

Thanks so much I sure appreciate it  !!

I am a freshwater lake sailor  and powerboater . My current  powerboat is a 1997 40′ Sea Ray Express Cruiser w gas engines  (900 hrs) .   So diesel , salt  and long distances will all be relatively  new experiences  for me. 

This info  might  actually prevent me from  learning everything the hard way  for a change 🙂 

Thanks again ,Mike

 

[Steve Lewis]

480CE owner

MC,

Welcome to the forum.  My wife and I bought a 2005 460 Sundancer with 480CE’s back in April of 2021.  We have Cruised her for 2 seasons now.  We wanted a 48 Sundancer of the 06 – 09 vintage(QSC540) but those were scarce in our market when we were in the market.  So we bought this boat with the idea that we would invest half to two thirds of the difference in purchase prices and fix up the 460 because the bones were in great shape.  Here is what we have done so far and the budget.  Remember…..  Everything costs more now.

We have taken 2 inches of pitch out of the props.  Still over the 450 curve but not by much.  We have EGT gauges, replaced the RACOR fuel filters with SMX DD/SB, had the cooling circuits fully serviced immediately upon purchase.  All of that plus labor was $15K.  There was some extra labor in there for removing the cockpit floor for better access to outboard sides of engines.

Yes heads are available.  This off season we are having the heads replaced, raw water pumps replaced and wolverine heaters added to the oil pans.  That is probably going to be in the $25K area.  Cockpit floor removed again……

Last season we updated electronics and added a remote for our bow and stern thrusters.  We also had the bottom paint blasted off, barrier coat applied and good paint as final layers.  we also did a couple of other smaller things like a water filter faucet in the galley and some storage units put in the main head shower stall since we shower at marinas and not on the boat.

Some might consider this excessive.  We are getting this boat built out for some Great Lakes cruising in the coming years.  It all adds up but in the end we have confidence in our boat.  It will get us there and back and we will not have to worry.

We have boating friends with the 390MY and 480CE’s.  They are very happy with it.  They have not replaced the heads.  He said that he is willing to roll the dice.  His choice……

I have attached 2 write ups that I have done consolidating most of the wisdom of this site on the topics you are asking about.  Give them a read and let us know if you have more questions.

Happy Holidays!

 

 

[Author]

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