steering line replacement.

[john]

I have a job that the owner of a older 38 Bertram wants the lower steering lines/hoses replaced. Its a capilano steering system. I guess now its seastar solutions. There specs say copper or 1000 psi equivalent hydraulic hose. Copper is going to be tough as its a old boat and ots just not that easy to run the lines with bends. Looking for ideas on the hydraulic hose to use. Stainless jic in some areas like the rudder most likely. Very pricey though. Thank you in advance.

John

Topic

[john]

I ordered the HC 150 B-9. No issues with the last one and this installation is going to be better I hope. If you have any feed back on the smaller vs the bigger ram I am interested to hear it. The boat is driven very conservative 99 percent of the time

[john]

Here is the ram. A k22 I’m sure

[john]

It is a k22. If you look back I made a very poor diagram of the mounting. The k22 was mounted behind the tie rod between the rudders. The other diagram is what I am converting it to using one of your seafirst rams. Clear things up some? The k22 is almost the same spec displacement as the hc 150-9.

[Tony Athens]

John,

If you really have a old K-22, then you are not really understanding what you are looking at.. Nothing about a K-22 is close to the mounting design of basically any other ram, including what we sell..

Basically its design is UNIQUE–Its kinda of a moving hydraulic “tie rod in itself”.. Look at the attached picture–Is this what you have , or “had”?

If it looks anything like the tie rod end pic, maybe you cannot really ID it?

[john]

So I am looking at rams. I need a 9 inch ram the way it looks. The hc 150 b-9 is pretty much a direct replacement for the k22 hynautic. The next bump up would be the HC 200 b-9. That seems a little overkill but what are the thoughts?

[john]

Found it. Looks like its a buck Algonquin fitting

[john]

Here is a pic of the rod ends I was trying to post earlier

[john]

Thank you Tony. I wanted to see if it was cost effective to get the tooling to do the lines myself. I didn’t think it would be so hard to find the parker fittings and hose. I deal with a lot of hydraulics on crab boats and it’s always nice to have the ability to do things close by and in house. I am still going backwords on this project. The rudder pedestals need work so Wednesday I am hoping to call in a order to start going foreword.

[Tony Athens]

If you look thru my steering article and thru other pics on this site, you’ll see all of the various steering equipment / parts we use an stock if you cannot find what you want locally.. Parker MSH #6 hose and fittings , SS tie rod & ram ends, other mics fitting , etc etc.. I’d say we average about 2 steering systems per month for “someones” custom installation.

Tony

[john]

Thank you for the response. I am going to remove the relief valve. The old one looks terrible and there is really no difference from other systems that never use them. I’m kind of answering some of my questions just looking things over and doing the math so to speak. I’ll be going with the 9 inch ram. With two rudders and the tie rod the system didn’t like to steer more than 40 degrees.

I’m still undecided if I want to set up and do the steering lines myself. The local Parker dealer here thinks only a 600 ft reel of hose is available.

The tie rod has these ends. Anyone seen them available new?

[donald roth]

I have removed the relief valve as well as the “pressure pot” on Hynautics systems, they work smoother and with less resistance at the helm.
The pressure pot can be repurposed as a high point reservoir, just vent the cap where the Schroeder valve is located.
Maybe you can use the old lines to pull the new ones into the blind spots?

[john]

I have read it and it is a great article. Just trying to put it all together. Finished ripping out old rusted tubing today. Two hoses were left from the last overhaul I guess are still there that I have to cut to remove. Going to go the route of redesign. The old mounting area is just not strong enough in my opinion. I am surprise it held up really. probably going to bridge the rudder pedestals with aluminum plate and attach to the port rudder.

So trying to spec the ram. Looks like the hc 200 series ram is my choice. I’m looking at the 9 or 11 inch. Judging by the article twin screw 70 degrees and single 45. Given the dimensions I have I guess a 9 inch ram. The previous ram was 10 inches so less rudder movement. would it be to much rudder movement with the 11 inch ram? what would be the drawback?

I also asked earlier about removing the relief valve, Any thoughts on that?

[Rob Schepis]

Seabord Steering Systems Article

Here’s the article that covers it all…

https://www.sbmar.com/articles/marine-hydraulic-steering-systems/

[donald roth]

John, looks like,some reorganization and cleanup are overdue in there!
Be careful of the Angle at which the ram drives the tiller, I think there is an article in Tony’s tips that explains this.

[john]

Here is a scetch of current design and proposed design. New design will require quite a bit of modifications. Feedback on both would be great.

[john]

I started removing all the steering lines and hardware. Seems the disconnect where I’m starting the replacement there is no access to where the lines go so I will have to feed a fish tape to bring the new lines in. This deck was re glassed and new hatches made.

Looking around the web at steering cylinders I think I have a k22 hynautic cylinder. I can get a direct replacement but not sure if it is really the way to go. It has worked for a long time but a redesign would be better I think. More work though. I have to talk to the boat owner and see what he wants to do.

Hynautic systems all show a relief valve. There is one installed in the current hynautic system on the boat. Do you think it is necessary? Most other systems don’t have them. Not a real problem installing one but less work to leave it out of the system

[Bill Desmarais]

John,

When I re-powered and rehabbed my 25 ft T Jason lobster boat I purchased most ALL the components/parts/pieces for the job from Tony out @ Seaboard Marine.
As to the steering I installed a SEAFIRST ram and SEAFIRST helm pump (5 turns lock-to-lock) and used the 3/8″ Parker poly line and field fittings Tony mentioned.

The hydraulic steering line replacement is easily replaced.
Get the pieces and hydraulic line from Tony…”easy-peasy”.

Looks to me like you got some clean up and reorganizing back there. Don’t forget to grease the tie rod ball joints back there.

Keep us posted,

Bill D

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Rob Schepis

[john]

Wow looks like I have my work cut out for me. Amazing what things look like when you lift the hatch. I did a little pre job acces today. I shake my head sometimes and am amazed at what works and workmanship that is out there. Here is a pic of the ram. All steel fitting corroded beyond belief. Interesting this summer I got a call to look at it. Trolling salmon it was steering to port better than starboard. The ram is not centered and it goes port about three inches more. Looks like everything is hynautic steering. Will be replacing the ram and all steering hoses. Those 1/4 inch hoses are coming in from the autopilot pump. The just added another fitting piggy backed at the ram. I’m still having a hard time finding the Parker hose and fittings. I’ll post pics on the progress.

[Tony Athens]

John,

We buy the hose and fitting from a large Parker distributor.. Reels are about 300-500 ft per..

We stock reusable fitting and only use them for field work.. Swaging is best for most work.. We use the tool shown below.. I’m thinking the one I have is 30 yrs old now?

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Hand_Operated_Swaging_Tool_p/dst1.htm

Tony

[john]

Thank you for the responses. I have seen a lot of different stuff used so that is why I put the question out there. My old 39 year old 34 californian has a mix of copper and the hard nylon tubing you see. The auto pilot pump has the nylon tubing.

Tony, where is your supplier for fittings? Do you crimp or use the field replacable fittings?

[Author]

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