Cummins Marine Diesel Repower Specialists Forums Cummins Marine Engines QSC 8.3 ECM socket moisture intrusion

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  • #18654

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    Hi All, I’ll cut and paste my original situation with my QSC, and the apparent issue, which has returned

    within 3 months:

    Hi all, I finally got my Smartcraft issue resolved, kinda costly so I figured it may help others to post the discovery of corroded pins on one of the 40 pin ECM sockets. 3 pins gone, one half gone!

    No signs of moisture in the socket, just pins gone.

    Seems one of the 40 pin harness connectors on the ECM had some sort of goo inside it, discovered when the tech opened it to re-pin the connector. Substance inside it seemed caustic/acidic or some sort of cleaner type residue, as he sprayed it out and got some on himself, which burned a bit.

    Bilge has never been cleaned with anything other than water with a touch of spray nine, and by me, never hosed. hands and knees wipe down.

    Bilge has never had water in it. (and certainly never up to the ECM mounting height!)

    Totally inexplicable. In any case, a new ECM was programmed with the data from the original, and a new Sim module also as it may have been corrupted/fried by the missing connector pins.

    Engine display now shows all the info it should. 4 hr. run back from Lauderdale Fla was nice with data to watch!

    One other tech tried finding this issue, late 2015 (correct, no engine data for over a year!) but to my knowledge did not take apart the 40 pin connectors, but did take the ECM to his shop to update.

    No missing pins were noticed at that time. Seeing as the problem pre-existed both techs (both authorized Cummins dealers) and no one had ever worked in the engine room or on the engine aside myself, I have to assume the goo was always there.Ā 

    Engine is under the salon, never any leaks of anything from above.

    The only thing I can think of is the harness wire is gel filled and oozed into the connector? IĀ“ve used direct burial wire (coax, phone trunks) that were but that gel doesnĀ“t eat the wire!

    If anyone has any idea IĀ“d love to hear it,

    Chris

    Ā 
Viewing 17 replies - 1 through 17 (of 17 total)
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  • #18820

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    From what I understand the new sensors have the same part number but no longer have this issue…

    Also, I believe that there is a terminating resistor you can use to “fake” the circuit so you bypass the sensor altogether without throwing a fault code on the display… could be a viable alternative.

    #18813

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    The pins of the sensor, which the coolant gets thru, are un-corroded, but the pins of the ECM are gold and very small, and there are various voltages and currents in that group of 25 affected.
    I am surprised at the small delicate size of the ECM pins.

    #18779

    Philip
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 2007 35ā€™ Cabo ā€˜FUGAā€™
    Engines: Cummins QSC8.3-540ā€™s
    Location: Long Beach, CA

    I’m kinda surprised coolant would erode a connector pin as I was under the belief that coolant was anti-corrosive by nature.

    #18778

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    I looked at the new sensor, unfortunately it looks identical, and carries the same part #

    #18777

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Well in that case a drip loop may not do the trick… but I’m sure that the newer sensors do not share the same issues. Install a new sensor and wait, watch & monitor…

    #18776

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    DRip loop won’t help, the inner seal on the sensor fails, allowing coolant to wick through the individual wires within the insulation!
    @ 15psi it happens quick. Fluid gets dumped right into the ECM socket.

    #18752

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Gravity…

    Like Rob noted in his post above… let GRAVITY be your friend on this one.

    OH, and replace the sensor obviously! Use yellow rector seal on the threads…

    #18749

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Drip Loop

    I haven’t seen any pics of what you are working with but could a drip loop be implemented?

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #18736

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    Modding the Sensor wires

    I was thinking of adding a “fluid break” to the sensor wires in the form of adding a second set of plugs say 12″ from the sensor as a fluid break.
    Crimp on Soldered barrel connectors with the clear plastic covers, one oer wire. It would provide a barrier to any future coolant leaks getting to the ECM.
    Thoughts?

    #18711

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    We use a combination of white lithium grease and Corrosion-X… best combo available.

    #18693

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    Corey can you give me a brand and type of dielectric grease to use?

    I’ll pack ’em but there are so many out there, the wrong one might cost me a 4th ECM…..

    Talked to another diesel cummins shop owner, a friend said to talk to him, he said not dielectric grease but some other spray, maybe a silicone? No idea but the truck guys use that instead.

    Regards,Ā 

     

     

     

    #18687

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Dielectric grease…

    This is why usingĀ dielectric grease on ALL electrical connections is so very important!

    #18673

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    No, but it was found attached as a note to the Low Coolant sensor part #.

    I don’t know the date issued either, I would like to know that.

    New harness, sensor and ECM, I’m back in business.

    Hopefully they upgraded that sensor. Ā It likes taking out expensive parts.

    #18663

    Philip
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 2007 35ā€™ Cabo ā€˜FUGAā€™
    Engines: Cummins QSC8.3-540ā€™s
    Location: Long Beach, CA

    Do you have the TSB number by chance for others to reference??

    #18660

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    The Answer!

    Tech just came with new ECM and Harness, he noticed the coolant tank (top of engine) sensor was leaking internally when he removed the old harness.

    The only way he found the TSB on this issue was when searching the sensor part #. TSB was noted, he read it.

    Seems as I’m out of warranty i’ve got no cover, but I’d like to know when that TSB came out. Shop which looked at this in 2015 said nothing, nor these guys in Feb this year.

    I suppose being in an area without Cummins support is costly, but would a dealer have seen these other than searching for them via replacement part #’s?(TSB’s) and do they all notify engine owners under their care?

    Apparently the TSB crosses 10 models of engines, presumably all use this coolant sensor. (for a few years up to 2010)

    Also I hope they’ve upgraded the sensor!

    Very expensive proposition that could have been avoided.

     

     

     

     

    #18656

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    Found out new factory harnesses are 54 pieces on back order, 8 weeks out! Later today my tech found one, due in Monday.

    Wonder why so many back ordered………confirmed by another shop. This is uncool. Cummins culpability?

    I would think so if fluid/corrosion is from their harness wires.Ā 

    Also found out those deutsch plugs should be replaced, or at least all the seals within and without also be replaced if re-pinning.

    Techs have been great, aside perhaps that move..Ā 

    That was not done, re-pinned only. So, new Harness and New ECM enroute. A couple multi $K lead paperweights later…..

    Old harness is removed and I want the plug cut off and wires skinned back to look for moisture or fluid in the wires.

    IĀ“ll be patient and wait to see the end result.

    #18655

    Christopher Lowe
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Odyssea
    Engines: QSC 8.3 HO 600hp
    Location: Grand Bahama
    Country: Bahamas

    It strikes again

    Cut and pasted from email sent to Corey:

    3 months in, I lose vessel view engine data again, and this time one pin is gone.Ā 
    Again, no sign of any fluid or residue around the ecm, plug intercooler etc.
    Ā 
    I do not fault the shop,or their tech, although perhaps it would have been wise to replace the deutsch plug, not re-pin, as the inner and outer seals were not replaced.
    Ā 
    Another ECM has been ordered, as well as a replacement harness.
    The moisture source is still a mystery. The plug is the one closest to the intercooler, furthest from the water pump. The right hand set of 25 pins with either 3 or 1 missing are all tarnished on both ECM’s. the socket and pins of the other closest to the water pump are clean and shiny. (as are the left set of 25 on the socket with missing pins!)
    Ā 
    1) can Tony and yourself give me any idea what is happening here? Where this moisture is coming from?
    Ā Ā I was told these are disposable Non core ECM’s. Also the Sim Module was replaced on the first go around, also non core/fixable according to the shop.
    Ā 
    Should cummins or the shop be stepping up to the plate in any way?
    Ā 
    The engine runs great btw, and I want to replace the exhaust jacket sometime soon, due to another discussion on boat diesel. So far not a problem, but, I like to be pro-active.
    It is a single screw boat!
    Ā 
    Regards, and thanks for any insight. At this rate i’ll be buying 4 ECMs/year! Obviously unacceptable.
Viewing 17 replies - 1 through 17 (of 17 total)

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