QSB 5.9 380's with 5100 hours

[Steve Lewis]

Hello Forum,

I was debating whether to even create this post as I am not sure my “Admiral” will even go for this……

I was poking around and I ran across a Tiara 3600 Open, 2005 vintage, in Marathon Florida that looks interesting. This is one of the boats that is HIGH on my desirable list. Description states “5100 hours on the engines and ~90% of those are at Trolling speed”. I sent 10 questions to the listing agent about the normal stuff talked about here on the forums. I also asked a series of questions about how the boat was operated including RPM and Fuel burn both on plane and trolling, time at those speeds, maint of all attachments etc….

Are there items about the base engines that I need to ask or have a surveyor look at closely that are specific to high hour engines? The pictures of the listing look encouraging. Things are clean topside, in the cabin and in the engine compartment. Things appear to be well cared for. If the engines have been given the same due regard it might be worth taking a flight to FL and check this boat out in person.

Seaboard team have mentioned that if setup correctly, maint is performed the “Seaboard Way” and the operator runs the boat with due regard to longevity then these engines can have a long life. 10K hours maybe? Source:

Low Speed Running & “Break-In” of Marine Diesels

The Tiara factory test shows that at 1000-1400 rpm(below hull speed) these engines burn fuel at rates that are well over the prop curve. is that even relevant at these lower rpm’s? According to the same test, the engines are over propped at about 10% when looking at the planing speed range of 2200-2600. I would take 2-3 inches of pitch out of the props if the owner indicates actual fuel burn is similar and we buy the boat.

I guess the main question is about the hours on these engines. My reading of the “low speed running…” article makes me think that the hours, in and of themselves, are not an issue. I might have tripped over a gem, pending the owner’s answers to the operation and maint questions of course. Looking for some confirmation of my reading.

The economics of this listing are actually exciting and I would love to make the “Sales Pitch” to my Admiral. Want to get my ducks in a row first.

Thoughts?

Topic

[Mike Mason]

Let me know once your ready for the fresh water flush system! I’ll send you pics of mine. Super easy to add to the raw water side.

Mike

[Tony Athens]

Steve,

If the boat meets your needs and the $$ is right, then I think the decision is obvious..

Tony

[Steve Lewis]

Update from Sellers Mechanic

I asked 10 questions of the seller and he had his mechanic answer them. Does anything look unusual about these answers? On the surface these look like honest and good answers to me……….. Might have to get on a plane and go give this boat a serious look.

I did not put Q’s 1+2 in because they are confirmation of what I already know. Lots of trolling hours and the boat is over propped on plane by about 25% but it is only run like that (2200 rpm @ 10.5 GPH per engine) a few hours a week to “blow things out”.

#3 – how many times have the aftercoolers been removed from the engines, placed on a bench, taken apart, thoroughly cleaned, all parts lubricated before reassembly and then pressure tested once attached? Aftercoolers are removed every year and cleaned and new gaskets and lubed. They are not pressure tested.

#4 – Why were the motor mounts replaced? The rubber was getting worn and they had a Cummins mechanic in Miami replace them.

#5 Have the seawater pumps been replaced or just the impellers? Just the impellers

#6 – Is there a fresh water flushing system installed on these engines? If so, are these systems used after every use of the boat? NO

#7 – Looks like the boat is lift kept. Is it always on the lift except when in use? Yes

#8 – What kind of bottom paint is on the hull? Not sure what brand they used last time but it is a hard paint not Ablative.

#9 – What kind of maint has been done on the Heat Exchangers? Taken apart every year and cleaned along with aftercoolers.

#10 – Turbos look in good shape. are they original? If original what kind of maint has been done on them? They are original, they had new hydraulic hoses put on the turbos and added new gaskets and lubricated them.

The boat is in very good shape for it’s age and the hours on the motors. He has his own personal mechanic look after the motors.

This guy is an engineer from Russia and has been doing all the maintenance on the motors for the seller.

Looks like might I have a case to convince my “Admiral” that this is a boat worth looking at. Any feedback and/or observations are welcome.

Thank you again SBMAR Forum.

[Steve Lewis]

Thank you everyone for your considered input. I am waiting on the answers to a series of questions that I asked of the listing agent and owner. 3 of those questions are about how the aftercoolers and other attachments have been serviced over the years. I broke the aftercooler question down into the required steps for removal, disassembly, cleaning, pressure test of core, LUBE, reassembly, pressure test etc… One thing I have learned from reading threads on this forum is that “Cummins Certified Mechanic” means nothing. The actual process followed is important so I enumerated that process carefully and am expecting that it has not been followed. Though I would be very happy to see proof that the owner has followed the Seaboard protocol.

Tony thank you for the absolute clarity on the hull speed fuel burn. That is something that I figured was not relevant but good to have the confirmation that it is the “on plane cruise RPM and fuel burn” through that range that is important. I have asked for those specs as well from the owner. You mentioned that downloading the ECM you would see data. Is there something that I can read about how much data and what can be learned from analyzing that data? Will it show just total fuel burned and total hours or does it go into detail on how the boat has been run over the years?

I want the answers from the owner and agent before getting on a plane to head to Florida. No point in going if the answers are not right.

Thank you all again for the opportunity to learn.

[Mike Mason]

^^^^^^^^ the oracle has spoken!!!

[Tony Athens]

The single most important component on this engine as to proper maintenance that has or has not been done since new is /are the aftercoolers…………..Engine hours are meaningless for this component.

Know anything “real” about part of the engine?

GPH at hull speed are of not concern.. Its at “cruise RPM’s that matters..

At 5100 hours, these are engines are due fro an overhead adjustment.. Maybe 2 hours per engine by a good tech.

As to hours overall—————I am pulling 2 x QSB 5.9 2005 Vintage from a charter boat this Jan–over 30, 000 hours–Heads have never been off and aftercoolers are original w/ the old aluminum cores.. Aloha Spirit–Channel Islands Calif. If he was not getting a grant to move up the EPA T3 QSB 6.7’s, he’d stay with what he has and go for 40,000 hrs…. Solid engine if all is done right & kept up right from Day 1…

As a side note, when I download the ECM as to total fuel burn per engine, I am thinking I’ll see well over 100,000 gallons per engine since new in 2005..

Tony

1 user thanked author for this post.

Bill Stenger

[john]

I work on a 38 Bertram that was repowered with that same year engines. Its a six pack boat and has over 8k hours on the engines. Just starting them from a cold start and listen to them run will tell you more than a survey. Look at the service records and talk to the person that does the service. Look at the install to see if there is anything that could cause a problem.

[Mike Mason]

Let’s see what happens. My engines are 2005 qsb’s and certainly don’t look like those as they have never been ” touched up” with paint.

Follow the guidance on here and make sure the engines history is documented and you may be ok.

Make sure whom ever runs the boat with you and does the engine surveys knows what they need to be ” seeing ” during sea trial.

[Steve Lewis]

Rob,

I took a closer look at the engine pics and I see what you mean. It looks like white paint over spray in places. Like the stbd hose coming out of the HX and going to the mixer. Wonder what that hides? Are they trying to hide something? Description stated a rebuild of the genset.

Still waiting for answers from the owner and listing agent. Now thinking this one falls into the too good to be true category.

Still hoping.

[Rob Schepis]

Yes a clean boat overall. Someone’s been in that ER with a rattle can, both white and red. That port riser hardcoat is not factory and the Airsep looks damaged or ?? The genset on those boats need a good inspection – Tiara uses PSS shaft seals and the electric end of the gen is right in line with any spray from a poorly maintained PSS.

[Mike Mason]

Looks clean. Very similar to my set up. I’m on a Tiara 33. See if you can get some pics of the exhaust set ups. The pics attached don’t show the whole system which can tell a lot.

Keep us posted.

Mike

[Steve Lewis]

https://www.boats.com/power-boats/2005-tiara-3600-open-6879266

This is the listing. The engine pics are 29-32 if I recall correctly. I am waiting on the owner to answer a series of questions about maintenance and operation that will help me “swag” marine age and if I want to go the next step of surveys or just pass on it.

Hoping for good answers.

[Mike Mason]

Read Tony’s articles on ” marine age”

Maybe we can see some pics of the engine room as well.

Service records?

I’m not afraid of high hours as long as the units have been serviced properly. From what I have seen , most are not.

[Author]

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