Cummins Marine Diesel Repower Specialists Forums General Discussion Leaking Gasket at Turbo to Exhaust Manifold on 6CTA8.3

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    Topic
  • #23049

    Terry
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 01Riviera
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: San Diego
    Country: U.S.

    Hello, I am new to the site…
    I recently identified a coolant leak at the site were the turbo to exhaust manifold gasket is on the starboard engine on a cummins 6CTA 8.3M. The leak appeared to only occur when the engine was operated above 2000 rpm. The gasket on the port engine was not leaking. The engines have about 1660 hours on them.
    I employed a cummins mechanic to change the turbo to exhaust manifold gasket on the starboard engine to correct the issue; and had him also change the same gasket on the port engine as maintenance. I was present when the service was done and noted that the surfaces on the starboard turbo and exhaust manifold were fairly clean with not much additional cleaning required and that there was soot build up on the port surfaces which required more cleaning than the starboard side. I had red RTV and RectorSeal #5 ready at time mechanic came (as I had reviewed the how to on this site prior to the repair) and I asked the mechanic he he used the products during the gasket install. The mechanic advised me that per Cummins approved service he installed the gasket dry and uses anti-seize on the stud threads.
    After the install of the new gaskets, new coolant was added to both engines and both engines started immediately leaking coolant out the bottom of the gasket. The leak occurred merely while the coolant was still being fully topped off and with no other pressure to the system. I spoke to the service supervisor and asked if the gasket could have been installed wrong thus causing both engines to leak, but he advised that the mechanic had properly installed the gaskets. The service supervisor and one of the cummins mechanics suggested that the exhaust manifolds and turbos on both engines be replaced. I again spoke to the service supervisor and he has now suggested/agreed to send out the mechanic to disassemble the turbo from the manifold and to have the mechanic use a straight edge and feeler gauges to measure any gaps to see if the surfaces are warped.
    I did contact another company who is also an authorized cummins warranty repair facility and did not go into any of the details other then I had a leak at the turbo to exhaust manifold and he told me two separate times during the phone call that there are “8 ways to install the gasket, but that only one way will make it so that it does not leak.”
    How would I be able to tell, at the time of removal, if the new gaskets were improperly installed? Also, is it likely that the turbo and exhaust manifolds on both engines could be warped? the vessel is a 2001 Riviera and I have been running this vessel for over 7 years and have never had any overheating or other major coolant issues.
    Any suggestions or thoughts as to what could now be causing both engines to now leak coolant would greatly be appreciated.

Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #23168

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Thanks for the follow-up. 99.9% you will be just fine. Just thought the mechanic would have gone a tad overboard on his “redo”….. Let us know how it goes when you give the service manager a copy of Tony’s Tips – just make sure they’ve made up your invoice already!

    #23167

    Terry
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 01Riviera
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: San Diego
    Country: U.S.

    Mechanic returned today and disassembled the starboard side and orientation of the gasket was wrong (as suspected). He put the gasket in the correct position and put the parts back together. We then filled the coolant and did a sea trail run and there was no leak… Finally progress made!

    Rob, the mechanic did reuse the gasket…I asked him about if they were a one time deal and he said that since the engines had not been run they would be ok to reuse. Honestly, I thought he should just replace the $34.00 gasket to be sure, especially after his error, but did not want to get in an argument with him on something that I really do not know about. and he did install the gasket dry. I had asked this mechanic and another mechanic from the same shop about using the RTV and they both told me that it was their shop policy to install the gasket dry. Live and learn…I don’t think I will have them out for repairs in the future.

    When I go to the shop tomorrow to settle up with the service manager, I am planning on giving him a printed copy of Tony’s Tip for “Changing a Turbo to Exhaust Manifold Gasket on a Cummins Mid Range Engine.” Additionally I plan to ask the service manager to put on my invoice that the same gasket was installed twice, just in case it fails in a short time.

    Cheers to everyone…Talk to you on the next issue… and will be doing my “Tony’s Tips” reading to make my life easer in the future.

    #23166

    Corey Schmidt
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Rebel Belle
    Engines: Cummins
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    I love happy endings! Especially when there’s no unnecessary $$$ that had to be spent…

    That mechanic needs to spend a little more time learning some “Tony’s Tips”!

    #23137

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Good stuff, annoying and unnecessary but good in the end for you. So meteorologists aren’t the only ones who get paid to get it wrong……… BTW, he reused or replaced the gaskets? Assembly was done dry or with hi temp RTV?

    #23136

    Terry
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 01Riviera
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: San Diego
    Country: U.S.

    Well, I went to the boat today with print outs of several of the photos that you all had sent me. Based on those photos, I looked at the edges of the gasket sticking out from the flange area and could tell that it appeared to be installed at an incorrect 90 degree turn. I could see that the gasket had a small half circle cut out along one of the edges and that this portion of the gasket was on the top right corner of the exhaust manifold and based on the pictures I received, the proper orientation should have put this half circle cut out on the bottom right corner of the exhaust manifold. I further observed that both turbo gaskets had been installed in the the same orientation by the mechanic….Therefore before the mechanic even arrived I felt better that it was en error and not a problem.

    The mechanic FINALLY arrived at about 2:15 p.m., and he did not seam too happy to be there as he started out by saying “so the service manager said you think I installed the gasket wrong.” I told him that I was just baffled that the engines would be leaking without any pressure when they hadn’t been leaking like that prior to installing the gasket. The mechanic then proceeded to disassemble the port side and upon removing the turbo he observed that the orientation was off and that the big holes on the gasket were covering the small holes and vice versa. The mechanic then apologized for the improper install. The mechanic then put a straight edge to both the turbo flange and exhaust manifold and told me that they were not warped. The mechanic then reinstalled the gasket and put everything back together….and after we refilled the coolant on the port engine there was NO LEAK anymore. The mechanic is coming back tomorrow to do the starboard engine and go on a sea trail to make sure that all is good.

    So there was a positive outcome today…and I just wanted to let everyone know.

    Since I do not have any mechanical background (although the more time I spend on boats the more I am learning) I really wanted to thank everyone for their replies and photos as they did help me to understand that what was happening was not right and that errors had likely been made. My enlightenment by you photos and comments helped so that I could not be tricked by the mechanic… I learned a lot, and I think the mechanic did too!
    Im glad I could this website!

    Regards,
    Terry

    #23121

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    ā€¦.but two new gasket replacements and two leaking turbos is NO mistakeā€¦ā€¦the mechanic is just plain ā€œdumbā€

    Yeah Bill the “theory of probability” would certainly suggest that!

    Hope it all works out today with positive outcome…

    #23094

    Bill Desmarais
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Extremist
    Engines: Cummins 6BTA 370
    Location: Portsmouth, NH
    Country: United States

    I’ve changed turbo gaskets on both my Cummins 6BTA and the Volvo TAMD 41PAs.

    Very very easy to “make a mistake with orientation”….but two new gasket replacements and two leaking turbos is NO mistake……the mechanic is just plain “dumb”

    #23085

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Regardless of the orientation (which is a major issue in itself) , IMO it was installed incorrectly if it was done dry and without a copious amount of Rector Seal #5 on the studs as in the pics……………………..

    Tony

    #23070

    Terry
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 01Riviera
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: San Diego
    Country: U.S.

    Thank you all for the replies and the photos….They definitely help!
    The mechanic is coming out tomorrow afternoon to disassemble the turbo to manifold exhaust and I will let you all know what I see and if the gasket installation was installed incorrectly.
    Regards,
    Terry

    #23059

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Here’s a shot from when I installed my P&S turbos a couple seasons. You can also see the writing as to which way the gasket faces….

    #23058

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    I use the terminology “Big hole to big hole and small hole to small hole”………It would not be the fist time I have seen this gasket installed 90 degrees out of orientation or the gasket flipped over “Turbo side”………..Your mechanic (s) or the company you are dealing with trying to literally “rip you off”..

    Tony

    #23057

    Philip
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 2007 35ā€™ Cabo ā€˜FUGAā€™
    Engines: Cummins QSC8.3-540ā€™s
    Location: Long Beach, CA

    Terry

    Pay real close attention to “small holes to small holes and large holes to large holes” when you take the gasket out. That very well could be the source of your leak….

    #23054

    Terry
    Participant
    Vessel Name: 01Riviera
    Engines: 6CTA 8.3M
    Location: San Diego
    Country: U.S.

    Tony,
    Thank you so much for your quick reply! I am glad to hear that it is not likely an issue with the manifold or turbo flange as I was dreading the $17,200 quote for the repairs…
    I will check out all the stuff you sent me… and once again I REALLY do appreciate your reply!
    Thank You
    Terry

    #23051

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Take that mechanic off your list of contacts–In so many words, he has no clue and mixed it all up 100%..When you find a “know it all mechanic”, then go find another

    Go here to see how itā€™s done.. Your manifolds and turbo flange are not warped.. Also, there is no difference in the 4-bolt cap or the turbo as to the “RIGHT WAY” to install it…..

    Spend more time reading the “Tony’s Tips” section on this site and you will avoid this type of stuff & major expense in the future.

    Study this link:

    Changing a Turbo to Exhaust Manifold Gasket on a Cummins Mid-Range Engine

    Tony

Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)

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