Cummins Marine Diesel Repower Specialists › Forums › General Discussion › Dripless seals dripping again
- This topic has 16 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by Joe Monaco.
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September 23, 2017 at 8:00 pm #23222
Hi all,
I have a 2002 31 foot express sport fisher with stock installed Chatfield Blue water marine dripless seals. When I had bough the boat 2 years ago theseals were leaking so I had the boat hauled and seals replaced. They are leaking again after about 300 hrs. Both these seals had also leaked in the boats past, the generator sits sideways between the 2 shafts, the electrical end of the generator had to be replaced and the water pump Pullys had salt water damage. A previous owner had rubber sleeves put over both shafts to keep the spray damage under control.
I’m at a crossroads. Obviously I’m not going to keep this system and Im trying to decide whats the best new system to install. I use the boat only about 150 hour a year. Another boat owner with the same boat replaced his always leaking BW seals with a Tides and is very happy with them. No leaks going on 9 years. I’ve read about some of the different dripless systems and their various scary failure modes and any advice would be much appreciated.
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October 1, 2017 at 8:46 am #23472
Here’s what I’ve learned about shaft seals.
Traditional are the safest but will still drip a little.
Tides are good….but, can fail if the cooling water flow is interrupted, it can cause the lip seal to seize to the shaft causing flooding and other damage. Also Lip seals eventually wear out but a spare can be left of the shaft.
PSS are good…but, the hose can fail/tear causing flooding. PSS recommends replacing the hose after 6 years. Also the PSS stainless steel coupler holding tension on the compressed hose & seal face can slide causing flooding. Various options available for added safety to back up/hold it, ensuring that seal face stays in place.
Bottom line is the dripless system you choose must be inspected religiously for these potentially failure modes. If you do that you can reduced significantly your chances of a disaster if you still want a dripless system.
Tie breaker for me is the boatyard mechanic here is recommending the PSS system. It’s what he is most comfortable with so Im going to install PSS and monitor the hose/face seal position.
Thanks to everyone for their input!
September 30, 2017 at 5:49 pm #23460
Rob SchepisForum ModeratorVessel Name: Tenacious
Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: USA
In case it’s not clear to all…The reason Tony is mentioning the boat’s draft as a consideration factor when deciding between the different shaft seal types is that the deeper the draft the greater the pressure head on the seal assembly..
September 30, 2017 at 4:08 pm #23455
Tony AthensModeratorVessel Name: Local Banks
Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
Location: Oxnard, CA
Country: USA
I’ve been looking this thread over and will add a few comments..
I have a couple of 1000-1500 hrs a year guys in my local area are that have Tides seals.. Both of them are very happy with them.. These are shallow draft semi planing hulls( JC 31’s) and travel in the low 20K range..
I have installed a few PSS seals over the years-All of been good sans one ( not its fault).. Again very shallow draft boats, planing hull and very low annual hours..
I have “tuned” up many PSS seals that are in the 10+ yr old range– All became “as new” and performed the same.
For my own use and any boat that is very commercial or deep draft–I would never use anything but a conventional shaft seal , but properly done.. My Bro;s boat is pushing 40,000 hours now on his conventional seals and I am sure will go another 20+ years..
Anyway, my 2-cents worth..
Tony
September 30, 2017 at 12:01 pm #23453PSS Issues
BTW, Before I changed out to Tides Marine I had PSS drip-less and with in a year the bellows got a crack and leaked, thank god for rescue tape. PSS Sent me a new one and said “never heard of this before”? but coincidentally another boat in my marina had the exact same thing happen within a couple months of my problem…. You could sink your boat if the shaft log fails, also, I am a believer in old technology, the old compression type shaft log have worked forever and failure is unlikely!
September 30, 2017 at 8:08 am #23447
Bill DesmaraisModeratorVessel Name: Extremist
Engines: Cummins 6BTA 370
Location: Portsmouth, NH
Country: United States
Joe,
I have never heard of nor researched Chatfield shaft seals.
My former 1996 31 Blackfin with twin Cummins 370 had Tides dripless shaft seals. Never had a problem with them and IMO Tides has the 2nd largest sales in dripless seals….PSS shaft seals being #1 in the industry.
The two boats I have now have PSS dripless shaft seals. Great design, 1000s in use, many in boats 15+ years.
Simple design.If you replace the Chatfields, replace with PSS or Tides.
For what it’s worth,
BIll D
September 30, 2017 at 8:08 am #23446
Bill DesmaraisModeratorVessel Name: Extremist
Engines: Cummins 6BTA 370
Location: Portsmouth, NH
Country: United States
Joe,
I have never heard of nor researched Chatfield shaft seals.
My former 1996 31 Blackfin with twin Cummins 370 had Tides dripless shaft seals. Never had a problem with them and IMO Tides has the 2nd largest sales in dripless seals….PSS shaft seals being #1 in the industry.
The two boats I have now have PSS dripless shaft seals. Great design, 1000s in use, many in boats 15+ years.
Simple design.If you replace the Chatfields, replace with PSS or Tides.
For what it’s worth,
BIll D
September 30, 2017 at 8:07 am #23445
Bill DesmaraisModeratorVessel Name: Extremist
Engines: Cummins 6BTA 370
Location: Portsmouth, NH
Country: United States
Joe,
I have never heard of nor researched Chatfield shaft seals.
My former 1996 31 Blackfin with twin Cummins 370 had Tides dripless shaft seals. Never had a problem with them and IMO Tides has the 2nd largest sales in dripless seals….PSS shaft seals being #1 in the industry.
The two boats I have now have PSS dripless shaft seals. Great design, 1000s in use, many in boats 15+ years.
Simple design.If you replace the Chatfields, replace with PSS or Tides.
For what it’s worth,
BIll D
September 29, 2017 at 8:01 am #23419Interesting artical.
I’m not sure how practical it is for the average recreational boat owner to have an out of the box part taken to a machine shop to be corrected then have it run on a bench to break it in. Who without their own boat yard/machine shop does that? Without doing all that to a traditional stuffing box I’m wondering now if it’s better to spend the money on the Tides system. Pricey for sure…
September 28, 2017 at 9:32 pm #23403Nice Seaboard article about greased packings: https://www.sbmar.com/articles/everything-you-need-to-know-about-propeller-shaft-packings/
September 28, 2017 at 8:21 pm #23401
PhilipParticipantVessel Name: 2007 35’ Cabo ‘FUGA’
Engines: Cummins QSC8.3-540’s
Location: Long Beach, CA
I would not describe traditional packing with modern materials as dripless. They require a drip for cooling. And they require an occasional adjustment.
September 28, 2017 at 7:33 am #23382Looking into this a bit more I’m learning the old style packings with new materials are reported as being “dripless” is this true? Would it make sense to convert to old school packing? My boat always gets a bit of water in the bildge from spray into air intakes and after a hose rinse off. I like the idea of simple set and forget vs having to test for water flow and monitor closely for other issues.
Are the new packing materials really dripless?
September 25, 2017 at 8:02 am #23238
Rob SchepisForum ModeratorVessel Name: Tenacious
Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: USA
My prior boat came equipped with the Tide Strong Seal. I replaced the lip seal upon purchase, and then a few seasons later I upgraded the boot hose and carrier to the Tides SureSeal, I had no issues with the Strong Seal but it was just some fun PM. I always checked my cooling water regularly by pulling the end of the hose off the seal carrier and running it into a bucket with a timer. Never an issue with the Tides setups in the 8 seasons I had her, averaging 100 – 125 hrs /season. I have many friends with the Tides setup and never heard of an issue. I recall someone got something wrapped in the shaft which tore the boot resulting in a good amount of water coming in at a good rate but he caught it in time..
September 24, 2017 at 4:00 pm #23231tides marine
I too ave tides marine drip-less seals for over 5 years, other than preventive maintenance such as changing the hose clamps they have worked flawlessly I recommend if you are changing out – go with these…. call and talk to them, if you have a failure during warranty they will pay for haul out as well as replacement. Impressive!
September 24, 2017 at 11:49 am #23227
PhilipParticipantVessel Name: 2007 35’ Cabo ‘FUGA’
Engines: Cummins QSC8.3-540’s
Location: Long Beach, CA
Not a drop from the tides seals although they have only been in the boat for two years.
Boatyard that installed them was the west coast delivery and commissioning point for Cabo and still services LOTS of Cabo’s. They said they would change the Factory seals, they just wouldn’t guarantee them for the above stated reason, and that made sense. They recommended the Tides which have done the job. Plus having a spare seal so I don’t have to haul the boat and remove the shaft is nice.
Seems like every time I haul there is always an extra surprise….
September 24, 2017 at 9:32 am #23226Thanks Philip,
I want to get this right this time as hauling the boat and pulling the shafts to fix this same problem multiple times is definitely not ideal. So you too are happy with the Tide sure seal set up? That was the brand the boat yard recommended when I wanted to just change the seals on my BW set up. They didn’t say they wouldn’t work long with a new seal or I would have changed to Tide then for sure. They just said they were more familiar with the Tides and were comfortable recommending them.
On the bright side it’s interesting to see the boat hauled, always looks much bigger out of the water!
September 24, 2017 at 7:20 am #23224
PhilipParticipantVessel Name: 2007 35’ Cabo ‘FUGA’
Engines: Cummins QSC8.3-540’s
Location: Long Beach, CA
When I bought my 07 Cabo it had the same Chatfield seals. What I found from talking to lots of people is these seals leak due to their heavy weight putting load on the seal itself wearing it out in time (both hours and calendar). Often the replaced seals wear out in a year or less partly due to the short piece of hose not being replaced allowing the weight of the cast seal body to affect the seal even quicker.
Lots of choices for replacement, at the most basic end is a standard flax packed shaft seal. Easy to maintain but will drip slightly. All the various forms of “dripless” seals will be drier but way more expensive.
I chose the Tides seals including the spare seal carrier so if I get a leak I can change the seal without disassembly.
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