Cummins 480 CE 6CTA. White smoke and knocking

[JJM]

Hey guys need some input. Think I have an idea what’s up but would like to bounce it off Tony and the other guys. So today driving home cruising one motor starts stumbling a bit , I start backing down to check what’s up and it stumbled right Down and shut off before I was able to. I changed Racor filter and re primed and after a lot of repriming finally got it to re fire. Motor now runs but has a top end knock and is pushing white smoke.I’m leaking towards the idea it is a stuck injector. But not 100%. Is surely hope it’s not the motor . Stuck going back on one motor

Topic

[Tony Athens]

????

??????????

 

You need to start a new thread?

[joe marsh]

hydraulic steering system

Hi guys what about that hydraulic steering system 

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[Tony Athens]

No more running, even at the dock, without checking the overhead for a valve issue.. If you do not know to do it, hire a good mechanic that does. The engine needs to barred over and each valve checked a few times over at least 4 full revolutions..

[Tony Athens]

Be sure you prop the engines as if the were 6CTA 430C’s———————Cruise RPM at 2200 RPM needs to load the engines be at 13.6 gph or less….

[JJM]

I am happy to report that all is basically resolved. I ended up replacing the port engine with a Cummins reman and installed new turbo, injectors, belts, etc. On Starboard engine, I had the head replaced for peace of mind. Nothing was found wrong when it was dissembled but you never know. I had most of the season on the new engine and other then some electrical glitches all is good. Put about 60 hours on the reman engine. Ran great. I also reduced the cup on props and installed EGT gauges to monitor it to know I am in the right zone. So far so good !. In my situation we opted to remove the floor panel above port motor to remove the motor. Was much easier to work.

[Paul Gois]

CE 480

Ty Richard
I had almost the exact same story and same result so far. I didn’t have to do the ecm’s because
I didn’t have that problem. I didn’t put on as many hours as you (about 100) but she ran good and
with the adjusted pitch on the wheels it felt slower and a bit sluggish but I am sure I will get used to it
and much better than the alternative. Ty for posting.
Paul

[Richard Dodson]

End of rebuild

After rebuilding one engine, swapping the head on the other, updating the ECMs, replacing all the injectors, rebuilding one turbo and other minor improvements, the dropped valve seat saga is finally over.

Everything on my 2005 390MY was done in the water without pulling the engine covers. Just enough clearance with the engine jacked to drop the pan.

So after removing 2” of pitch the fuel burn is at or slightly below the 450 curve. We put 230 hours on the boat this past season without issue. The valves were checked after 100 hours, all remained in spec.

The rebuild took 80 hours, total cost was $22,500 my insurance paid $18,200.
The head swap took 27 hours, total cost was $8,000
Updating the ECMs to eliminate the low RPM stumble/stall was around 1,000 for both.
Lastly servicing the heat exchangers and Aftercooler was $1080. for both engines.

Rudi at East Coast Diesel did the work. Located in the Kent Island to Ocean City,MD if you need a great mechanic

Many thanks to those who offered advice, especially Tony who’s suggestions were irreplaceable.

[Tony Athens]

This is not good————————DO NOT run the engine anymore until you or someone investigate the possibility of a dropped valve seat..

Tony

[Tony Athens]

My thoughts are in your post….

[JJM]

Tony Athens wrote:

Break-in after an engine rebuild or head replacement……… Cummins publishes nothing that I can pin down, but to me, only logic should be the guiding force here…

To me, logic would dictate “wine & cheese” cruise speeds for a few hours.. That way all the sub-systems are easy to to check–Things like gear temps, shaft seal temps, coolant temps and proper de-aeration of the coolant fill , un-planned leaks, etc etc.. After all has been checked, then a few quick run ups to WOT with easy back offs down to the wine & cheese speeds.. Is the engine making its full WOT and making it EASY? In the the case of the 480CE, my thoughts on propping is written in stone on this particular engine.

Then its dock time for a top to bottom check of and then, GO FISHING ?

Tony

So there is no seating the rings Tony or recommended oil change after first 20 hours or anything?

[Tony Athens]

Cummins Engine Break-in

Break-in after an engine rebuild or head replacement……… Cummins publishes nothing that I can pin down, but to me, only logic should be the guiding force here…

To me, logic would dictate “wine & cheese” cruise speeds for a few hours.. That way all the sub-systems are easy to to check–Things like gear temps, shaft seal temps, coolant temps and proper de-aeration of the coolant fill , un-planned leaks, etc etc.. After all has been checked, then a few quick run ups to WOT with easy back offs down to the wine & cheese speeds.. Is the engine making its full WOT and making it EASY? In the the case of the 480CE, my thoughts on propping is written in stone on this particular engine.

Then its dock time for a top to bottom check of and then, GO FISHING ?

Tony

1 user thanked author for this post.

JJM

[JJM]

Richard Dodson wrote:

Yep, other head is already been delivered

Question, I’ve read and been told several techniques for breaking in the rebuilt engine, specifically seating the new rings. What would you suggest?

Also interested in Tony’s feedback on this. I will be in the same situation with new pistons and rings.

[JJM]

Richard Dodson wrote:

The insurance coverage specifically listed unplanned mechanical failure. 100% to the 10 year point. Mine is 15 years, material was depreciated 20% and then the deductible was applied.

That’s great news!

Mine was determined to be a latent defect ( the valve and seat that failed ) due to multiple 480 CE failures. My policy does not cover the actual latent defect but DOES cover resulting damage. The valve damaged the pistons, turbo etc. Working through the details with them. I am proactively also changing the other head to the new version to eliminate this.

[Richard Dodson]

Yep, other head is already been delivered

Question, I’ve read and been told several techniques for breaking in the rebuilt engine, specifically seating the new rings. What would you suggest?

[Tony Athens]

Mechanica Failure & Insurance Coverage

Seems reasonable.. Hope you are proactive and do the other engine.

[Richard Dodson]

The insurance coverage specifically listed unplanned mechanical failure. 100% to the 10 year point. Mine is 15 years, material was depreciated 20% and then the deductible was applied.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Oscar

[JJM]

Richard Dodson wrote:

Got the sleeves pulled and am waiting delivery of a bunch of parts. Insurance paid 18k of 22k to rebuild. Pays to have a good policy. Make sure you have the correct head Cummins part #

4942463. The price from Cummins is 36xx.00

I’m also swapping the head on the other engine after we finish the damaged one.

Outstanding. I am about to get rolling finally on my repairs also. Going to be installing a new long block and replacing the head on other engine as a preventative measure.

What did insurance label coverage as? Latent defect?

[Richard Dodson]

Got the sleeves pulled and am waiting delivery of a bunch of parts. Insurance paid 18k of 22k to rebuild. Pays to have a good policy. Make sure you have the correct head Cummins part #
4942463. The price from Cummins is 36xx.00

I’m also swapping the head on the other engine after we finish the damaged one.

[JJM]

Paul Gois wrote:

Hi Richard, I am also undergoing the same dilema right now… My mechanic was able to drop the oil pan in place and the engine did not have to be moved so we got lucky there. I had gathered some #’s previous to knowing any of this, and I was burning 27gph at 2160rpm. Seems really close but slightly over. Since I was not tracking the gph for this purpose, I have #’s such as 18.5gph at 1870 rpm. Same exact engine same exact way that happened to you… It’s amazing to me that with so many of these cases out there, that Cummins has not stepped up.

I am having my port side head removed and inspected (replaced of course as well) as this

has been such a let down to what I thought was a superb engine and company. We will be putting mine

back together in a few weeks and can’t wait for the warmer weather to get here to get the testing done

so we can enjoy our short summer seasons up here in the NE. Keep us informed on your progress and I will as well.

How are you making out Paul?

[JJM]

Well once they are replaced and propped correctly I think the engines will have a long happy life. I have not heard of any failures on the newer gen heads yet .

[Author]

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