Cummins Marine Diesel Repower Specialists › Forums › Cummins Marine Engines › 480 CE with white vapor – cause?

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  • June 5, 2017 at 6:46 pm #19544

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    I have 2005 Cummins 480CE’s in a Sea Ray. Last year my port engine began developing what can be best described as a slight white vapor or smoke which only appears at cruise speed at 2400 RPM. If I back off to a lower rpm the vapor disappears. I’ve owned boat for seven years and only last year began to notice this occur. About 800 hours on the motors. I’ve had the engines serviced, replacing all fluids, had the after coolers serviced and rebuilt this past winter, (were in great condition I was told) SBMAR water pumps serviced with new impellers, all new air, oil, and fuel filters, and just about any other preventive maintenance one could do.
    Removed and inspected elbows for obstructions but all found clean. No water found in coolant or oil. Oil test came back fine. Engine runs strong and temp averages normal at 165-170. Only other thing done at start of last season was the replacement of the two water exhaust hoses which attach to thru-hull fitting as they were old and deteriorating. Despite all that has been done the white vapor/smoke remains. (It’s very light.) ??? Thoughts appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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  • July 9, 2017 at 9:08 am #20733

    Oscar
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Applejack
    Engines: 6BTA 330
    Location: FL
    Country: United States

    Wondering where this issue ended up….

    June 21, 2017 at 10:32 am #20204

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Hopefully you’ll see all open and clear tubes similar to my photo above.
    Pull the zinc first so you have controlled drainage of the seawater from the heat exchanger.
    That will remove most of the water rather than letting it all dump out the end when you pop the cap.

    June 21, 2017 at 8:57 am #20199

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    Thanks. Yeah, I read than already. When I open what should I expect to see or not see?

    June 21, 2017 at 8:46 am #20198

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    Fast response! I just added a pic to my prior post. Yes, new gaskets and see this thread (may or may not apply):

    Heat Exchanger Flat End Cap Fix

    June 21, 2017 at 8:44 am #20194

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    Negative. That was my plan. I should get new gaskets before I do that correct?

    June 21, 2017 at 8:42 am #20193

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA
    Brian wrote:

    …They did not service HX and I want to have that done . Wondering how far I really need to go with that. Gets pricey with these guys…

    Have you removed the end covers for a peek yet? Only seawater behind the end cover, you won’t have to deal with coolant drain down.

    June 21, 2017 at 7:31 am #20192

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    I had marina remove aftercoolers and service. I provided your protocol/instructions to them and requested that it be followed.
    I was advise they did so. I had oil test completed and it cam back fine. I wanted to make sure there was no sea water in the oil and confirmed there was none.

    They did not service HX and I want to have that done . Wondering how far I really need to go with that. Gets pricey with these guys.

    Just had friend who has Cummins in a 480 Sea Ray Express and it cost him 3K per engine for complete sea water side servicing.
    1100 hours on his boat. That work was done by Marine Max on east coast.

    June 20, 2017 at 7:43 pm #20181

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    Who did the aftercoolers and were they removed from the vessel to be serviced?

    Service your Heat exchangers…

    Tony

    June 20, 2017 at 6:44 am #20153

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    Yes, aftercoolers done this past winter. Thinking servicing the HX but could I just inspect for obvious debris and replace gaskets or is that a waste of time? Water pump (SBMAR) impellers replaced last year. Need to buy spares and gasket kits as well. SMX Super 17 Impeller and 1730 seawater pump gasket and o-ring kits, right? 2005 480 CE’s. Thanks.

    June 19, 2017 at 7:40 pm #20135

    Tony Athens
    Moderator
    Vessel Name: Local Banks
    Engines: QSB 6.7 550 HP
    Location: Oxnard, CA
    Country: USA

    The hose on top from the thermostat to the HX will collapse if you have air in the system when all cools down.. Remove the X-tank top when cold, the hose will expand then fill to the top.If it keeps doing that, get a new cap

    As to all the rest/exhaust–sounds like steam………….When was the last time the aftercoolers were removed from the engines and serviced on the bench per my protocol?

    Tony

    June 19, 2017 at 4:29 pm #20106

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    Hose Question

    Noticed after running motor to temp heat exchanger coolant hose collapses on itself as if subjected to slight vacuum, perhaps caused by coolant when engine cools down. Is this normal or should I replace this hose as well?

    June 8, 2017 at 8:21 am #19683

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    Thanks. I will check hoses, etc. and post results.

    June 8, 2017 at 5:20 am #19681

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    That would suffice as long as temps are 100% normal but it is not the “forever” solution. Even if the tube passages are free of blockage they do become coated with deposits that will effect heat transfer and reduce the efficiency of the cooler(s). I would do as you say and then when it becomes coolant change time pull the heat exchanger for a chemical cleaning.

    Not sure if you have young ones aboard? But if you do (or even if you don’t) and you have some time to cruise and the seas for heading out east to the “open water” destinations does not look ideal considering heading further west in the Peconics all the way to Treasure Cove in Riverhead. Not sure if you heard of it? It’s an easy scenic cruise and the place and town are definetly worth a few nights.

    June 7, 2017 at 8:27 am #19633

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    Thanks Rob. With respect to servicing the heat exchanger, would a simple visual inspection along with gasket replacement and typical zinc replacement suffice or should it be removed? Of course this is as long at there is nothing noted upon. What about the area areas of the water circuit/coolers? I will check hoses this weekend and order rebuild kit for heat exchangers from SBMAR and attempt to do as much as I am able with hopes I can resolve issue but I fear there may be a time when I will have to retain a qualified Cummins guy locally to come in and address. Unfrtunately, ther is no one around my area that I feel comfortable with at this time. The guy I formerly used is semi-retired.

    We get to Greenport, Shelter, Sag Harbor, and Montauk often. Majority of our trips are further north to Block, Newport,
    Martha’s, etc.

    June 7, 2017 at 7:11 am #19626

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    It wouldn’t be stupid – it would be lucky!

    As far as the cooler inspections what we are concerned with here is seawater “flow” through the circuit , so visual inspection will show then “openess” of the tubes.

    Home port for me is Moriches – south shore of Long Island. We have great crystal clear water around the inlets and really nice beaches but not somewhere any transients look to transgress due to dangerous inlet, tight channels, shifting shoals and sandbars galore!

    I’m sure your LI cruising includes the Peconics, Gardiners and Montauk – all wonderful cruising grounds..

    June 6, 2017 at 7:11 pm #19612

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    All good thoughts regarding hoses and easy. I’d say no, none have really been examined in fashion you suggest. How stupid would it be if it was a degraded hose from strainer to pump?

    A plumber/boater friend of mine were actually talking about taking temp as you mention.He’s bringing IR down this weekend.

    Quick thoughts on cooler inspections? It was once suggested that I use muriatic acid cut with water in heat exchanger and trans cooler for 30 minutes and then flush. I hate working with the stuff and would probably allow a real wrench to deal with it.

    Yes, I do recognize where you were. Got to love Mystic. Where is home port? We hit LI often. Thanks for the thoughts.

    June 6, 2017 at 6:48 pm #19611

    Rob Schepis
    Forum Moderator
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 6BTA 5.9 330's - "Seaboard Style"
    Location: Long Island, NY
    Country: USA

    What about the other components of the sea water circuit – fuel cooler, gear cooler, hoses – esp. the hose from the seacock to the pump. Have all been disassembled and inspected as possible culprits of restricting seawater flow? A fatigued hose between the seacock and pump could be partially collapsing while under suction.

    Have you actually verified that the steaming engine wet exhaust is hotter than the non-steaming side? – using an IR gun and your hand downstream in the wet piping and at the transom outlets?

    BTW, If you seen the shot of my boat in the Welcome thread in General Discussion I’m sure you noticed it was just south of your slip when it was taken. That was taken by a friend who docks at Gwenmor. I was heading up to the Seaport at the time..

    June 6, 2017 at 1:08 pm #19586

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    BTW, you’ll notice at the tail end of the first video taken from inside the bridge that the vapor is all but gone when I back down.

    June 6, 2017 at 1:05 pm #19583

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    Yes, that me in my home slip. You must be at Red 36. Too funny. I’ve seen your boat as well. One of 4 Tenacious’ I know of in my waters and to the north.

    To answer your questions yes, the spray rings. See photo’s below. No debris or clog. Pumps replaced about 3 years ago with SBMAR pumps and then rebuilt last summer with kit which was sent along with them by Bayside, the wrench next to my slip, along with all the other work done at that time. Motor’s had about 750 hours at the time I began to notice. 802 hours today. The issue has subsided a bit since the aftercooler rebuild which took place over the winter but still exists. I’ve had mechanics tell me it’s vapor/steam as it does dissipate when I back off from 2400 RPM. I upload two videos onto youtube which you can view at the following links. I’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts. I did speak with Tony this morning and he feels it could be a blockage or restriction somewhere. I’m waiting to hear back from him.

    June 6, 2017 at 12:41 pm #19580

    Brian
    Participant
    Vessel Name: Tenacious
    Engines: 480 CE
    Location: Mystic CT
    Country: USA

    Yes, that’s me in my home port. Looks like you’re at Red 36. Too funny.

    I spoke to Tony earlier today and am waiting to hear back but to answer your questions, I replaced both pumps a few
    years ago with SBMAR pumps. Last year had serviced (at Bayside Marine, next door to my boat) with SBMAR kit that
    came with pumps, replaced impellers, etc., plus all the other items I already mentioned. Yes on the spray ring. The
    photo below is was I was speaking of. Clear of debris. Never had issue with impeller breaking up either. Motors
    probably had about 750 hours when I began to notice. 802 hours today. Tony feels obstruction somewhere. Never
    had heat exchanger serviced so maybe start there.

    I just put up these videos on Youtube. Took last year. Better this year but still there with after-cooler rebuild, but
    still there. I’ve had mechanics tell me it’s vapor not smoke. Some say its normal. I disagree as it only recently started
    to occur. You will see two different angles in the videos. I can turn a wrench but in no way consider myself a mechanic.

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